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Discussion Starter #1
When they came out in in the late 1960s?

Were they Japan only or also available in the USA and Europe?

While the 6217 and 6105s were somewhat lacking in the late 1960s when compared to an Omega SM300 166.024 or Rolex 1680 of the same time,
the 6159 was superior when you compare them side to side.

I can’t recall the Omega price for the second gen SM300 no date or date, of the 1968ish era.
SS Subs would have been about $200 at the time.
 

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Looks like it cataloged for 38,000 yen in 1969 - exchange rate was about 300 yen to a dollar, so about $125 or so.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Wow, at a PX in 1968 someone could have dropped about 85$ on a 6105, $185 on a Submariner, and I believe $140-160 on a SM300.

$125 for a 6159 was a steal for the quality of the watch and movement.

I sold off my 6217s, 6159s, and many of my 6105s a while ago. At the time, comparing them all together plus against my SM300 and a friend‘s Sub 1680,
say on a scale of 1-10, in terms of overall tool/dive/quality/movement,
I ranked the 6159 a 10, the Sub an 8, the SM300 a 7, the 6105s a 5, the 6217 a 3, with 1s being a few examples of some of the little off brand pin lever types divers of the era.
 

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Wow, at a PX in 1968 someone could have dropped about 85$ on a 6105, $185 on a Submariner, and I believe $140-160 on a SM300.

$125 for a 6159 was a steal for the quality of the watch and movement.

I sold off my 6217s, 6159s, and many of my 6105s a while ago. At the time, comparing them all together plus against my SM300 and a friend‘s Sub 1680,
say on a scale of 1-10, in terms of overall tool/dive/quality/movement,
I ranked the 6159 a 10, the Sub an 8, the SM300 a 7, the 6105s a 5, the 6217 a 3, with 1s being a few examples of some of the little off brand pin lever types divers of the era.
Wow! My navy buddy and I bring it up all the time to each other that in the mid 80’s the (16800) sub was listed like around $1k on the navy exchange catalog.

Well, we argue about it, I think it was around $900 but he says it was even cheaper than that. Didn't care at the time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yes.

Mid 1980s

My Recollection was actually more like 1200$ for a non COSC no date, and $1500 for a date/COSC one.
And you could not typically buy one stateside. You could buy at an overseas PX or order one In the US if you had Some orders for overseas I believe.

Which was not so much an issue because
An E4 or E5 single young guy living in the barracks with jump/dive pay had maybe 850$ pay after taxes a month then. Dating, car payments, insurance, extra socks, a knife, clothes, Running shoes, etc. in an era without everyone having a credit card, etc. made it very unlikely.

About 150$ for a 6309 or another Seiko or citizen offering was much more doable.

Rolex Subs increasing in price 10 times from the late 1960s to 1980s vs a Seiko diver going up 2X over the same period, in combination with the 6309 series finally incorporating both a clicking bezel and screw down crown and making it a solid competitor, and Omega and Doxa and other true dive watch makers sort of going off course during that period,
is what cemented the 6309 as the “poor man’s Rolex Sub” and overall probably the single most common watch across US Special Forces, Ranger Bn guys, SEALs, Force Recon, PJs, CCT, with a huge creep into non special operations Infantry, Scouts, divers, etc.
 

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Inflation calculator says that the Seiko "should" run about $900 today and the Rolex Sub about $1200. It would be interesting to see if Swiss wages and material costs have run along as far ahead of the background rate as Swiss pricing has - how much is necessary and how much is the "cost of luxury"?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
if you spent 95$ on a 6105 about 50 years ago, it should cost about $600 now.
A 6159 for $125 now about 850$
A Sub for $200 now about $1330.
 

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if you spent 95$ on a 6105 about 50 years ago, it should cost about $600 now.
A 6159 for $125
That is not accurate as you can see in the catalog. A 6159 was 2.5 times more expensive than a 6105.

38000 Yen for a 6159 in 1968 is about 141000 yen in todays money. So that would be more like 1400$. 1400$ in todays money would be almost 200$ in 1968. But going off on the 6105 that cost 95$ a 6159 would have been 95 x 2.5 = 237$. Eitherway, a lot more than 125$
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Doing conversions from catalog prices in another currency is suboptimal.

My favorite is PX receipts and civilian US store receipts.

They five a true street price for the time.
 

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That is not accurate as you can see in the catalog. A 6159 was 2.5 times more expensive than a 6105.

38000 Yen for a 6159 in 1968 is about 141000 yen in todays money. So that would be more like 1400$. 1400$ in todays money would be almost 200$ in 1968. But going off on the 6105 that cost 95$ a 6159 would have been 95 x 2.5 = 237$. Eitherway, a lot more than 125$
Don't forget - the exchange rate has changed quite a bit since the late 1960's - it is about ¥100 to $1 today but was over to ¥300 to $1 back then.
 

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Don't forget - the exchange rate has changed quite a bit since the late 1960's - it is about ¥100 to $1 today but was over to ¥300 to $1 back then.
In 1968 it was around 220 yen to 1 dollar. Using this tool:

Doing conversions from catalog prices in another currency is suboptimal.
Its comparing catalog prices in the same currency. A 6159 was 2.5 times more expensive than a 6105.
 

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A 6309 in 1982 was $90 at the Navy Exchange. I still had the box and receipt until 10 years ago when I last moved. That was most of my first paycheck from my summer job.
 

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In 1968 it was around 220 yen to 1 dollar. Using this tool:



Its comparing catalog prices in the same currency. A 6159 was 2.5 times more expensive than a 6105.
Thanks. I was using the exchange rate from 1971 (based on Dollar Yen Exchange Rate (USD JPY) - Historical Chart) - it was the closest I could find to 1968.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Whats that mean ?
That was a typo.

FIND

They find a true street street price for the time.

The problem with catalog/sticker prices is they don’t always reflect the proportional actual selling prices.

For example, a base tow package Ford F-150 will sticker about 35K.
It will sell for about 96% of sticker price.

The max option F250 with best engine, dually, goose neck package will sticker about 70k.
Based on catalog prices,
The F250 is twice the price.
But these trucks typically sell at about 85% sticker Price.

Dont get me wrong, I LOVE seeing the little sticker prices and catalog prices.
But receipts are the Golden look.

Different currency conversions based on historical data also are rife with accuracy issues and what it was really like at the time. So again receipts kick butt.

So, if catalog and stickers say a 1968 6105 was 14,500 yen and a 6159 was 38,000 yen,
On paper that’s 2.6x.

But 6105s we’re leaving the shop at 13,500 yen and in then high demand at the full 14,500.
Sort of like the 1969 Dodge Charger.
But the better but expensive, bulky, funky 6159 were having trouble leaving the shops at 34,000 yen then 30,000 yen and were still there a year or two later and finally going out at 25,000 yen.
Sort of like the Dodge Charger Daytona.
Without even getting into chart vs actual vs fluctuations in exchange rate, and inflation calculators there were real time at the moment historical factors that make the receipts the true accurate findings.

And,
like the 69 Daytona vs standard 69 Dodge Charger,
today the 6159 has way more value and way less available than the 6105s.
 

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With watches nowadays its the other way around. You could find an SKX, Seiko 5 or Turtle for almost half or sometimes even more than half the retail price. Where as with a Grand Seiko you might be able to negotiate a 20% discount but not a lot more than that. Also really depends on the deal that you find.
 
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