The Watch Site banner
21 - 40 of 59 Posts

Administrator
Joined
33,842 Posts
One of my Favorited case backs, the month of the Olympics.

479343
 

Special Member
Joined
15,665 Posts
馃嵖 great thread ...
 

Registered
Joined
43 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I just reworked the 2nd Generation section to correctly note that we have two versions. It looks like in 1966 we had the Asian Games case back, with dials carried over from the original (but perhaps in some new color options) - and then in 1967 we had the "Standard" version - with the lumed dial and hands. Still looking for more information and data points on the 6217-7010... developing....
 

Administrator
Joined
33,842 Posts
I had this 7010.



479364



479365
 

Registered
Joined
43 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Thanks! Another 1967!

So far, I have documented 3 different case designs across 4 major releases (5 if you count the Asian Games as a separate watch). These break out into 6 model numbers and give us at least 14 different dials, 10 different bezels, and 7 different case backs - whew ...
 

Registered
Joined
43 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Just checked, here we go:
6217-7010 (with a 7000 dial)
June 1967
Case: 39mm
L2L: 44mm
H: 11mm
lug width: 19mm
London separate and correct on the city ring
View attachment 479293 View attachment 479294

6117-6400
December 1969
case: 41mm
L2L: 44mm
H: 12mm
Lug width: 20mm
London together with Paris and Rome on the city ring.
View attachment 479295 View attachment 479296

Both together to see them in one glance.
View attachment 479297


Regarding the 鈥濴ondon thing鈥 with correct vs. non correct position; I once read that for a short time, London, Paris and Rome did actually share the same time zone. So the city ring looks wrong today but was correct back than. I suppose this is well known but I wanted to mention it just to make sure.

BTW I am still looking for the correct bracelet for my 6217, if anyone reading this has one for spare鈥.
On your 7010 - can you tell me exactly what it says at the bottom edge of the dial - I have not documented a dial with that wording before - it looks like JAPAN and then perhaps some model info on the right hand side of the 6-o'clock marker?
 

Registered
Joined
43 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I've added a summary of my outstanding questions / unresolved items to my first post in this thread. I will try to get that in step with the google doc - and (obviously) any help resolving those points would be greatly appreciated!
 

Special Member & Premium Member
Joined
1,322 Posts
Very true. These are really great watches and fun to collect. They are also quite a challenge to document.



Very nice. I am considering adding (or doing another document) on the GMT's that look to share the same case, movement and basic concept - perhaps when feel I have turned over every stone with the World Time versions.
You could start with this,
My Citizen World Timer
Watch Analog watch Clock Watch accessory Silver
 

Special Member
Joined
2,701 Posts
It says: Japan 6217-7000TAD
On your 7010 - can you tell me exactly what it says at the bottom edge of the dial - I have not documented a dial with that wording before - it looks like JAPAN and then perhaps some model info on the right hand side of the 6-o'clock marker?
 

Registered
Joined
43 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Thx - I did have that one documented as an alternate dial for the 7000 - might have been an OEM dial used when servicing, or perhaps one dial code was for JDM vs US/World...
 

Registered
Joined
43 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Ok, two updates.

First I have added sections for Original Box and Papers under each generation - and included what I have found so far. If you have original box and papers photos of any of these, please share! I also added more dial shots for the 4th gen, and made various other updates.

Second, I am developing a theory on the mystery of why some 6117-640X models have the WORLD TIME wording at 6-o'clock and others have it at 12-o'clock.

Initially I thought it was a production year thing - as the outgoing 6117-601X had WORLD TIME at 6-o'clock, I figured perhaps they continued that for a couple of years before switching the position to 12 o-clock. Data doesn't bear that out though - there is a 1969 catalog shot that shows WORLD TIME at 12-o'clock, and others that show it at 6-o'clock. So far the only common thread seems to be watches from english literature tend to have WORLD TIME at 12-o'clock, and watches in Japanese brochures and catalogs have it at 6-o'clock. It appears that perhaps ALL versions settled on the 12-o'clock position at some point during or after 1972. Could be completely wrong, but that's my best guess at present.
 

Registered
Joined
43 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
A couple more updates:

1 - I have gone through and increased the size of the photos - to improve legibility.

2 - I have discovered quite a range of diverse case back markings on the 6117-640x series, which are now reflected in that section (4th gen case backs).

The Asian Games version (gen 2) had a different dial vs the standard of that gen - also updated. Lots of other small tweaks and corrections based on feedback from the community.

Thanks again everyone!
 

Registered
Joined
43 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Next question / hunch....

Does ANYONE have ANY generation of a SEIKO World Time with a WHITE or OFF-WHITE (not silver) dial that does NOT have a linen pattern / finish?

I have a hunch the "flat white" versions of these watches are just a lighting effect in photos - and in earlier watches (gen 1 through 3) these are all silver / linen dials - and on the 4th generation it is off white (not silver) also with linen texture finish. This will reduce my dial count a bit, but I think may be more accurate.

Please prove me wrong.

Otherwise, I think I will amend the document to remove most "flat white" dial references. Its funny that sales listings say "rare linen dial" - when really that was THE dial, with the only truly rare exception being the early sunburst black/gray dials.
 

Special Member
Joined
1,116 Posts
These are two I used to own. Both comes with the original bracelet. I bead blasted the case and bracelet of the white dial.
Sold them to a friend who is also a Seiko fan and collector. :)
Watch Analog watch Product Clock Watch accessory


Watch Analog watch Clock Font Silver


Watch Analog watch Rectangle Clock Silver
 

Registered
Joined
43 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
At this point there are a few general points that still intrigue me:
  • Is the (1st gen) Dolphin Case back only for Dec 1964? It appears so - maybe a send off version?
  • Is the (1st gen) 1967 version of the 7000 a true re-issue or just service/replacement cases?
  • Is there any proof that the Gold/Gilt version of the 6409 (4th gen) was every produced outside of Feb 1972? Was there ever a 6400 version? Seems all versions I have seen are 6409 (North American Market) and manufactured in Feb 1972.
  • Do the 6217-7010 and the 6117-6010/9 share the same case (2nd and 3rd gen)?
  • What is up with gen 2? No marketing or catalog scans, and two odd versions...
If we look at this chronologically, it appears kind of like this:
  • Gen 1
    • Mar - Aug 1964 - "First" Special edition World Time for the Tokyo Olympics etched back
    • Sept - Nov 1964 - Stamped case back fixes "rub-away" etched case back
    • Dec 1964 - Dolphin case back produced - perhaps "final edition"?
    • 1965 - no world times
  • Gen 2
    • 1966 - Special Asian Games - new case and case back, same dial and hands from Gen 1
    • 1967 - Same model number as Asian games, but new lumed dial and hands, and new "standard" case back. This is perhaps the first watch that is not a "special edition" for a specific event?
  • Re-issue of Gen 1
    • 1967 - we see some 1st gen watches appear again - perhaps service cases? Perhaps for the Mexico Olympics - case backs engraved instead of etched or stamped
  • Gen 3
    • 1968 - 3rd gen released, Chicago replaced by Mexico on cities ring - a more fitting and likely Mexico Olympics watch - but standard case back (no Olympic torch)
    • 1969 - 3rd gen continues
  • Gen 4
    • Dec 1969 - 4th gen introduced - WORLD TIME at 6-o'clock on white and black dials (like Gen 3) - GTM and London separated (like Gen 3)
    • Jan 1972 - WORLD TIME moved to 12-o'clock on white dial - all dials put GMT and London back at some spot on cities ring
    • Feb 1972 - gold/gilt version released - limited perhaps to just this month and only the North American market (6409 model only)
    • Sometime after 1974 - All black dial watches also move WORLD TIME to 12-o'clock
    • Dec 1976 - production ends
 

Registered
Joined
43 Posts
Discussion Starter · #37 ·
I've added a timeline to the document - roughly following my notes above - the full thing is in the Google Doc - easy to find off the "table of contents"

480166
 

Registered
Joined
333 Posts

Wow! This is the most detailed and complete overview of a Seiko series I've ever seen. Outstanding documentation, thank you for sharing!
I wished commercial publications like the SpeedTimer book or the recent diver book would be accurate like this....
Dapellegrini, you are my day hero!

A 6217 7000 was my entering watch to collect Seiko vintage time pieces. Here it is:
480243
 

Registered
Joined
43 Posts
Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Wow! This is the most detailed and complete overview of a Seiko series I've ever seen. Outstanding documentation, thank you for sharing!
I wished commercial publications like the SpeedTimer book or the recent diver book would be accurate like this....
Dapellegrini, you are my day hero!

A 6217 7000 was my entering watch to collect Seiko vintage time pieces. Here it is:
View attachment 480243
That is a great photo and awesome watch. My next step is to find and acquire a 6217-7010 and a 6117-6010/9. I am still not 100% sure they share the same case. Good, original examples of those generations are harder to come by.
 

Registered
Joined
43 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Here is a conundrum - a 6217-7010, from June 1967 - no lume on dial or hands - and also not Asian Games...


the dial says JAPAN | 6217-7000 T AD...

And here is a silver dial Asian Games variant with the same JAPAN | 6217-7000 T AD:


I guess the most likely explanation is that the first one here got a dial swap at some point with an Asian games version - unless there are other non-Asian games, 1967 watches (6217-7010) with no lume?
 
21 - 40 of 59 Posts
Top