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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all -

[If there is a better place for this post - moderators please move as appropriate]

I was recently gifted my father's Seiko World Time, circa Dec 1971, reference 6117-6409 w/ white dial. I really like this watch, and have added a couple more in the last few months - a 1964 black dial 6217-7000 and a 1976 black dial 6117-6400.

While researching and browsing "for sale" listings (past and present), I found there are a very large range of models, dials and bezels in this line - including many originals, but also many frankensteins / parts bin specials / aftermarket hacks. Par for the course with a 50 year old watch.

To try and organize my findings, I have started a Google Doc to break down each major generation, reference number and version of this watch, including OEM dial and bezel options. I am hoping this will be helpful to others that are interested these Seiko world timers from the 60's and 70's. This is all for educational purposes and posterity's sake. I'm collecting photos and snippets from google/ebay or wherever else I can find them. The goal is to be as complete and accurate as possible.

I have posted this on a couple other sites - trying to get the broadest exposure to enthusiasts (past, current and future) of this range of watches. Hello again if you already saw this post on another enthusiast site!

THE ASK
***

Please help me make this document as accurate and complete as possible!

It is organized by Generation / Model - into 4 repeating parts. Each part has the same sub-parts - reviewing the specifics of that model. Near the end of each section is a heading "Notes and unresolved items" where I have compiled a list of my outstanding questions for each model. I have also highlighted various areas through the document in red where things need to be confirmed or information added.

Comments and Suggested edits are enabled - please feel free to contribute if you can - either in the document, in this thread of PM me.

I will keep the document as accurate and up to date as possible and hope others find it useful.

 

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From what I have read it looks pretty impressive.
 

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This is one of the most informative collection of information regarding the World Timers. Looks like you spent quite some time putting that together. Thanks for sharing! I am sure that the collective here can fill some gaps like article numbers… Changed the crystal on my 6217-7010 some time ago for a nos one. The original Seiko paper envelope should be somewhere around the crystal drawer. Will have a look asap, otherwise borel or boley will give you some more infos.
479265
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
This is one of the most informative collection of information regarding the World Timers. Looks like you spent quite some time putting that together. Thanks for sharing! I am sure that the collective here can fill some gaps like article numbers… Changed the crystal on my 6217-7010 some time ago for a nos one. The original Seiko paper envelope should be somewhere around the crystal drawer. Will have a look asap, otherwise borel or boley will give you some more infos.
View attachment 479265
Thank you - I have added the crystal part number!

I don't currently own a 6217-7010 or 6117-601X (but am in the market). If you have a moment (and some calipers), can you check that my measurements on the 7010 are correct? I have 38mm case, 45mm lug to lug. Some listings put it at 39mm, so I am not sure which is correct. And also curious - if you know - is there any difference in the case from the 6217-7010 to the 6117-601X? It appears not, but I have not confirmed that yet!
 

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Will check tomorrow. The 6117 and 6217 do have different cases. Let me know if you need some pics showing them next to each other.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Will check tomorrow. The 6117 and 6217 do have different cases. Let me know if you need some pics showing them next to each other.
The 6117-6400/9 (4th gen) definitely had a new case - but the pictures and info I have found for the 6117-6010/9 (3rd gen) looks like a dial and bezel update of the 6217-7010 (2nd gen). Would be happy to be proven wrong - and that would explain the different case codes (701 vs 601)
 

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Great write up and nice collection!
I have a few projects in the works and I'm still shooting myself in the foot for selling a nice silver dial 6400 a while back.
Currently I have this one to wear...........
479286
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Great write up and nice collection!
I have a few projects in the works and I'm still shooting myself in the foot for selling a nice silver dial 6400 a while back.
Currently I have this one to wear...........
View attachment 479286
Love it - thx for the photo. What is the year/month on yours? I am still trying to determine what the earliest and latest dates for this gen are. The white dial disappears in the catalogs before the black dial, but by 1975 they aren't in the catalogs (or I can't find them) at all. My black dial is an August 1976, so I think they were still making them at least until that point.

[EDIT] yours will be an earlier one - I am also trying to find the earliest and latest month/year with the London at GMT + 1. One ad suggests there may be some of these from as early as 1969, but the earliest I have seen is 1970. Another rumor is that the London at GMT + 1 continued into 1972 as they used up old bezels, but it is not clear if that is true and if so, how far into 1972.
 

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Excellent work, as for bracelet the Stelux H-link that is quite common for SE market one


I think the brick bracelet is also made by Stelux since it is used in the Navigator-Timer
 

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I sold a really good 6117 - 6400 the other week to a decades long Seiko collector.

He said it'll be the last Seiko he ever buys (nothing to do with the quality of the watch ;) )

The other month I had refurbished a resist gold Pogue for him - it was the first Seiko he'd ever bought - bought new :)
 

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Just checked, here we go:
6217-7010 (with a 7000 dial)
June 1967
Case: 39mm
L2L: 44mm
H: 11mm
lug width: 19mm
London separate and correct on the city ring
479293
479294


6117-6400
December 1969
case: 41mm
L2L: 44mm
H: 12mm
Lug width: 20mm
London together with Paris and Rome on the city ring.
479295
479296


Both together to see them in one glance.
479297



Regarding the „London thing“ with correct vs. non correct position; I once read that for a short time, London, Paris and Rome did actually share the same time zone. So the city ring looks wrong today but was correct back than. I suppose this is well known but I wanted to mention it just to make sure.

BTW I am still looking for the correct bracelet for my 6217, if anyone reading this has one for spare….
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
[EDIT] the site went down for maintenance and messed up my message, fixed now

Thank you Phil_G! A few notes and questions on yours:

  • The dial on your 6217-7010 looks like a transplant from a 7000 (I think). From my research so far, the 7010 dial should look like this: seiko 6217 7010
  • Can you reconfirm the L2L on your 6217 - I think you have a typo there
  • There is a model between the 6217-7010 and the 6117-6400/9, the 6117-6010/9. I believe it has the same case from the 6217-7010, but a new dial - but would love to find an owner to confirm the case details on that model. So you have Gen 1 (6217-7000), Gen 2 (6217-7010) gets a new case and dial, Gen 3 (6117-601X) gets a new dial and Gen 4 (6117-640X) gets a new case again and dial
  • Thanks for the London GMT note - I am aware of that - another fun detail to know about while collecting these watches
  • From what I have found it is very hard to find the correct bracelet for the original 6217-7000, and I am not not 100% clear yet on what the OEM option(s) were for the Gen 2 6217-7010.
 

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You are probably right with the 6217-7010 here. I checked the dial and it says 6217-7000. So there was either a swap of the dial, a swap of the case or it really has been made like this, thanks to using parts that where available. We'll never know. The only thing that is for sure, is that these are some really awesome watches.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You are probably right with the 6217-7010 here. I checked the dial and it says 6217-7000. So there was either a swap of the dial, a swap of the case or it really has been made like this, thanks to using parts that where available. We'll never know. The only thing that is for sure, is that these are some really awesome watches.
Very true. These are really great watches and fun to collect. They are also quite a challenge to document.

I have let some go over the years, the only Seikos of the GMT type I still have are






Very nice. I am considering adding (or doing another document) on the GMT's that look to share the same case, movement and basic concept - perhaps when feel I have turned over every stone with the World Time versions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Just checked, here we go:
6217-7010 (with a 7000 dial)
June 1967
Case: 39mm
L2L: 44mm
H: 11mm
lug width: 19mm
London separate and correct on the city ring
View attachment 479293 View attachment 479294

6117-6400
December 1969
case: 41mm
L2L: 44mm
H: 12mm
Lug width: 20mm
London together with Paris and Rome on the city ring.
View attachment 479295 View attachment 479296

Both together to see them in one glance.
View attachment 479297


Regarding the „London thing“ with correct vs. non correct position; I once read that for a short time, London, Paris and Rome did actually share the same time zone. So the city ring looks wrong today but was correct back than. I suppose this is well known but I wanted to mention it just to make sure.

BTW I am still looking for the correct bracelet for my 6217, if anyone reading this has one for spare….
By chance - is your 7010 an Asian Games case back?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
An interesting (to me at least) bit of new information I am working with. The photos I have in the 6217-7010 area of the document of the bracelet - are of an Asian Games case back (from Aug 1966), clearly a 7010 case - and the dial on the other side has no lume. I also just received a note from another person who owns 2 Asian Games watches - and says neither have lume.

What I now would like to know is (1) does anyone have a 1966 case back version of the 6217-7010 that is NOT an Asian Games case and (2) does anyone have an Asian Games case AND have the lumed dial version of the 6217-7010? Dial or case swaps still seem the most plausible answer without more data. TBD.
 
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