[Axel66]

Hi guys,

I lately spotted a 6309-7040 in the German bay, with no high bids on it.
A look at the bad Photo made sure that at least the bezel was not original.
So I played a bit lottery and hoped that there might been some original parts used, but it seems, that there are non except the case.
However, plan B was to use it for my first mod, so I think the converted $100, I paid haven't been a bargain, nor a total rip-off (in the auction the word original was not used).

As you can directly see:
- bezel insert is fake (I will not even call it aftermarket with the hook on the "1" of the "10"
- movement seems to be for me not original as there is a English/Roman numbers day wheel used (or does anybody know, that this was used in an legit version)
- Dial is fake.
- Hands I don't know
- Case back? For me it looks a bit odd, but I'm not sure - can anybody enlighten me regarding that one?

Btw: Movement runs good and on the first pic the crown was not totally screwed down.


Now, the problem is, that even I know, it's a Feiko it doesn't look too bad on the wrist. But at least I would like to replace the bezel insert.
Should I search for a better aftermarket Bezel, or use it as plaanned for a mod?
If I decide to do the latter - will 7S26 hands fit a 6309 movement?
If not, where can I get some nice hands for a 6309?

Sorry for all the questions.

Cheers,

Axel

 

[TakesALickin]

Axel, I'd go full mod since you know there are already so many replacement parts on it. I have the same situation with my 6309, so I replaced the bezel with one from Noah. I've considered replacing the dial and hands as well, but someone relumed them at some point and they glow so well right now that I think I'll enjoy them as they are for the time being. Fortunately, the watch runs very well - by varying wrist/rest time, I can make it run spot on with the atomic clock.

As for your question regarding hands, it's my understanding that Seiko hands are universal - all standard sized openings. The 7s26 and 6309 hands will interchange.

 

[Seikosonic]

I think you are better off than you think you are. This is just my opinion and I think others will chime in with theirs as well.
Your dial is original; look around the day/date opening and you'll see a small bevel along the edges, although it may be debated popular opinion is that only original or original replacements had that bevel.
It does look like the dial marker lume was removed and touched up with white paint though.
Your hands and bezel ring are replacements this is not a big deal; the smeared markers on your chapter ring make me think it was an original that someone tried to clean and smudged the paint, or this could be a replacement, which is why the markers smeared.

I have a stack of 6309 movements with roman numerals on them, out of all the parts watches i buy, roman numerals are the most common day wheels I get.

On your back cover the words and serial look stamped like an original; copies are often laser engraved.
Granted it may be over polished a bit, but did you check the serial number to the production database?

In my opinion you have a aftermarket bezel ring and hands which are common to a lot of these,the rest looks genuine to me, although I'd need to see the movement as well.

There is hardly any reason to think this feiko; a few aftermarket parts (or replacement) don't mean something is fake.
Take the back off and post a picture of the movement, I bet it's a Seiko 6309.

Anyone else?

 

[TheTigerUK]

Hi Axel to me the dial did sort of look original but look at the "resist" it seems lower than the 150m which i don't think is right, Harold does a really nice insert, can't see anything wrong with the case back and more than likely the hands are replacement but they look reasonable. When you think it is really quite a lot of watch for $100 IMO.

 

[Kelly]

Your dial is original, your case back is genuine, and yes English/Romans is a correct day wheel. I've seen many.

Your bezel insert is aftermarket. Your hands are very good, probably aftermarket, but the good flat ones, almost indistinguishable from the originals.

 

[TheTigerUK]

Is that correct then Kelley for the "Resist" to be lower than the other text ?

 

[Axel66]

Thanks a lot for all the feedback!
Where can I get a better insert from?
John mentioned Harold - is that a member or a company?

Thanks,

Axel

 

[TheTigerUK]

Harold is Yobokies you will find him in the trade forum, really good the inserts are (but no Lume as such in the pip)

 

[JoepeteJokla]

Bezel insert and hands are definetely aftermarket. The hands are a bit sharp when compared to the original hands. These aftermarket hands mounted on Your piece are pretty well made though. Try to put some light on the hands from a very bright flashlight. If they light up like christmas, they are aftermarket I am not sure about the dial, whether it is original or unoriginal ...

Gabe wrote a good "how to buy" guide on the 6309:

http://larrybiggs.net/scwf/index.php?mod=103&action=0&id=1138639790

If You end up modding the watch, please note that it is possible to put in a 7548 quartz movement if it is too difficult to source a good condition 6309 automatic. What dial, hands and bezel You choose is entirely up to You - it is Your mod

 

[toxicavenger]

Sweet watch, I would just change out the bezel.

 

[DaveS]

The case back is marked "JAPAN A" so I thought this would mean the dial should have the Suwa symbol at 6 o'clock, under the 150m wording. If I am correct (hopefully Isthmus will chip in), this would suggest that either the caseback or dial have been changed.
I would agree with the other posters. The watch is not a Feiko. Certainly has an aftermarket insert and possibly a combination of parts from other watches but that doesn't make it a fake in my book.
I wouldn't grumble at $100.
Kind regards
Dave

 

[DrSeiko]

Pretty much legitimate. The insert is AM, but thats the first part thats easily changed. The Hands are better repos. Its funny that after Gabes buyers guide came out, the hands got a whole lot better. :


Some day, we`ll have to loupe the text on a dial to see if its authentic, just like you have to do with a Rolex.

Thats what I call the European dial, it was`nt made for the US market, and was`nt made for Japan, so it was sold most everywhere else, Europe, Africa, other places.


The case back is I believe incorrect for the dial, it should not have Japan on it if its a match to the dial..


Looking at the condition of the dial and index ring, it looks like this watch, or at least the watch this dial was in, was flooded at some point, that is trace evidence of salt staining and it sat long enough to eat the index marks up.


Based on all of this, I would say this watch is authentic, but its been thrown together using whatever was in the parts bin that was remotely salvegable. The motor, I`d like to see if it at least came out of a low mileage dress watch or is the one that got flooded?


Perfect candidate for a mod.


Cheers,
Randall

 

[Axel66]

I'll post a pic of the "motor" tomorrow. For sure it will support your thoughts of being faced with an water intrusion once.

Cheers,

Axel

 

[Axel66]

... The watch is not a Feiko. Certainly has an aftermarket insert and possibly a combination of parts from other watches but that doesn't make it a fake in my book....

Ah, so I might have the wrong definition of a Feiko. I thought, there were original Seikos (if parts have been replaced, then they were original spare parts), Feikos (where parts were replaced with after market parts or the watch has been assambled from parts of different models) and Fakes (someone puts a Seiko logo on a non Seiko watch.

Thanks a lot for your comment - it doesn't make my decision any easier ;D !

Cheers,

Axel

 

[Pei Der Han]

Ah, so I might have the wrong definition of a Feiko. I thought, there were original Seikos (if parts have been replaced, then they were original spare parts), Feikos (where parts were replaced with after market parts or the watch has been assambled from parts of different models) and Fakes (someone puts a Seiko logo on a non Seiko watch.

Thanks a lot for your comment - it doesn't make my decision any easier ;D !

Cheers,

Axel

I think you have confused Feiko with Franken Seiko; which is what you have

 

[swing---kid]

I also have Roman/English days on mine ('79 7040), which I am pretty sure is original. What looks kind of strange on yours is the Suwa-symbol on the back, but the caseback looks pretty worn in general. Over all, it doesn't look too bad I would say, could be worse...

 

[Axel66]

I think you have confused Feiko with Franken Seiko; which is what you have

To be honest: I thought Feiko stands for Franken Seiko.
We definitely need an acronym/nick name list in the forum!

Cheers,

Axel

 

[Axel66]

I also have Roman/English days on mine ('79 7040), which I am pretty sure is original. What looks kind of strange on yours is the Suwa-symbol on the back, but the caseback looks pretty worn in general. Over all, it doesn't look too bad I would say, could be worse..

Thanks a lot!
The watch turned out to be better than I first thought! (Now OT and insider: what is really important is that Borussia won yesterday) ;D

Cheers,

Axel

 

[Pei Der Han]

To be honest: I thought Feiko stands for Franken Seiko.
We definitely need an acronym/nick name list in the forum!

Cheers,

Axel

Axel, that is an excellent idea 8)
Wonder how we would go about making that happen?

 

[TheTigerUK]

Another dial like yours to compare with Axel.