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Discussion Starter #1
Mostly found on eBay watches, these poor quality stainless steel bracelets are described as being Seiko in a lot of cases. The Seiko logo on the clasp looks to be the correct font. Did or does Seiko really make this low end stuff or are they mostly fake and forgery? Stamped stainless is great as long as good quality and proper grade is chosen for its intended use. It seems the flimsy, cheap, poor quality stainless steel is being used for these bracelets I'm referring to. The ones that feel similar to aluminum foil. Anyone else finding the same? I have two samples so far.

Curt


 

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if you're referring to willie's braclets, i might not agree. i've got quite a few and all are sturdy as any oyster i've worn. i am not gentle on my watches by any stretch of the imagination; so, for me, i'd give them a thumbs up.

<* shark >>><
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thesharkman said:
if you're referring to willie's braclets, i might not agree. i've got quite a few and all are sturdy as any oyster i've worn. i am not gentle on my watches by any stretch of the imagination; so, for me, i'd give them a thumbs up.

<* shark >>><
Hey there,
I'm not quite sure what a willie's bracelet is. Any pictures or links to a site?
 

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curtisjf said:
The ones that feel similar to aluminum foil. Anyone else finding the same? I have two samples so far.
Curt, are you referring to the folded link jubilee bracelets found on many eBay Seiko dive watches? If so, I can vouch that they are not nearly as nice as the genuine Seiko jubilees with solid sidelinks.

Can you post pics or a link to illustrate exactly what style/type of bracelet you're inquiring about?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Here are some pictures so you guys can see what I'm talking about. One came on a 6138-8020 and the other on a 6139-6002 as pictured. The quality of bracelet on my SKX009, which is from an SHC041, is excellent compared to these two.
 

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I thin it is worth mentioning that there are fakes and there there are fakes. Some are very bad, and others are very good. Also don't forget that seiko's clasps tend to be of pretty standard size, so they can easily be swapped into non-seiko bracelets. For example, this is what is done with many of the EXCELLENT aftermarket bracelets sold today, buy guys like Yobokies, Stella and Will Jean.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm guessing that a Will Jean is the Willie's that thesharkman referred to yesterday? I would be happy to have a good quality after-market bracelet with a real Seiko clasp now seeing the junk that's out there. Thanks for the info on Yobokies, Stella and Will Jean.


So regarding the fakes/forgeries, doesn't Seiko ever try to track any of the manufacturers down and prosecute? Or at least send letters to the sellers on eBay and explain copyright of the Seiko logo or something? Maybe they do and are just overwhelmed with all the garbage out there.


Thanks guys,
Curt
 

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The thing with the bay is, that many say 'original Seiko' bracelet...
In my experience, none of them are, at least not the ones that I had bought.
They also play with words like 'original seiko replacement bracelet'.
So its an original bracelet made by whomever that can replace your existing Seiko one...
 

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curtisjf said:
So regarding the fakes/forgeries, doesn't Seiko ever try to track any of the manufacturers down and prosecute? Or at least send letters to the sellers on eBay and explain copyright of the Seiko logo or something? Maybe they do and are just overwhelmed with all the garbage out there.
My guess, is that replacement parts are more of a cost center for seiko than a profit generating business. The volume of their production is just so high, and the markets serviced by aftermarket vendors is so small, that I suspect it is not worth the time, effort and money to go after them - especially since they are mainly servicing vintage models that seiko no longer makes parts for.

That said, seeing some of seiko's recent releases, I have to believe that many of these aftermarket products and the mods built with them, have not gone unnoticed back at headquarters.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Isthmus said:
My guess, is that replacement parts are more of a cost center for seiko than a profit generating business. The volume of their production is just so high, and the markets serviced by aftermarket vendors is so small, that I suspect it is not worth the time, effort and money to go after them - especially since they are mainly servicing vintage models that seiko no longer makes parts for.

That said, seeing some of seiko's recent releases, I have to believe that many of these aftermarket products and the mods built with them, have not gone unnoticed back at headquarters.
I didn't realize Seiko doesn't provide parts for older model watches. I think Seiko could make an effort to service what they sell with quality OEM parts. After-market parts will certainly come in varying quality. My problem is with the Seiko signed clasps in this case that are not real Seiko. In no way can I see Seiko making the two garbage ones I have pictured, the edges are so poorly finished and sharp I almost cut myself and they bend very easily. The "original Seiko signed bracelets" or however the slick sellers word it are of course fakes as well. Flagrant copyright infringement and forgery imo. At least we have a lot of good companies supplying good quality bracelets and straps.
 

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Seiko does support their watches, but they only commit to carrying parts for specific models for 10 years after a model is discontinued. on higher end models like credors, spring drives and grand seikos, IIRC that commitment is 30 years. Considering that most people simply replace old watches every few years and that companies like seiko produce literally millions of watches per year (I want to say around 12 million, but don't quote me on that), you can see how stocking parts for every model ever made indefinitely would be a prohibitve and unreasonable expense. very few watch companies provide parts and service for vintage models. Most (if not all) of those that do are high end brands, and often the parts they replace the old ones with are modern, not NOS ones, which while great, ruin the collectible value of pieces when the new parts are used (ROLEX is notorious for this).
 

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Most has been said already, but just also be careful about the wording: Original bracelet for Seiko does not mean, that it's an original Seiko bracelet! Lot of guys play with that!
And even more: original Seiko bracelet does not mean it came originally with the specific watch.
Best advice is to look at old catalogues and ads.
However - nio guarantee!
And even worst - aftermarket could be the better choice (just look at what Jonathan offers!) ;) .

Cheers,

Axel
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Good info guys, thanks.


I suppose providing parts for all models is too much to ask of Seiko. It's up to after-market manufacturers to step up and provide good quality parts, including bracelets and clasps. However, it is turning out to be fun tracking down old parts! Maybe good quality after-market manufacturers could be authorized by Seiko and use the logo without breaking the law. Thus taking the pressure off Seiko while having to provide parts with minimum quality standards. The specialty crafted product from some modders are in a class all their own from what some members say, this is good news.



Curt
 

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Thanks, Axel!

My reproduction bracelets are better engineered than the originals and are generally less expensive than even the dodgiest of the few originals that come up for sale less and less frequently these days.

One thing I have insisted on is my company logo be laser-etched into the buckle cap as I am proud of my products and the efforts that brought them to market.

In an effort to maintain honesty, my buckle caps are not interchangeable with the most common of Seiko's which were used on the original "fishbone" and "H"-link. I never want my product to be represented as genuine Seiko somewhere down the road either by mistake or by a lack of scruples.

Now, to poke some sellers with a sharp stick, anyone who imprints, etches, engraves or stamps the word "SEIKO" on anything not made by Seiko is a counterfeiter. Case closed. This includes packaging of aftermarket parts, as well.

Just to be absolutely clear, I am not implying Will Jean or Stella are counterfeiting their bracelet offerings, which by the way are excellent products. It is my belief they are using genuine Seiko buckles which carry the the "SEIKO" logo on their product.




Axel66 said:
Most has been said already, but just also be careful about the wording: Original bracelet for Seiko does not mean, that it's an original Seiko bracelet! Lot of guys play with that!
And even more: original Seiko bracelet does not mean it came originally with the specific watch.
Best advice is to look at old catalogues and ads.
However - nio guarantee!
And even worst - aftermarket could be the better choice (just look at what Jonathan offers!) ;) .

Cheers,

Axel
 
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