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Ok - adding to the fire just a bit. A "True Pogue" in excellent condition for restoration on a cheap bracelet went for just over $1600 US. Quite a premium: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-Seiko-6139-6005-Colonel-Pogue-Pepsi-Bezel-Gold-6009T-Dial-Chronograph-Watch/264642086180.
That was crazy but a day before that auction another Pogue was sold at BIN at $950 much less.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193359965261

Imo this one has a dial and Inner rotating ring in a much nicer condition than the one that sold for $1600. Along with the original straight H link bracelet. A new crystal and perhaps a better bezel and with some professional photography. And you got all the ingredients to fetch a nice sum. Personally I think auctions are nothing more than a mind f*** with alot of irrationality that only gets realized when its too late.

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I tracked a few 6306-7001 auctions for February 2020 on Yahoo Japan and the final gavel prices were as follows:

$517.32
$459.85
$823.88
$575.38
$594.92
$537.63


So in reality the watch can be had in the $500-$600 range. I am quite willing to bet most SCWF members would call them all "too low". But again, this is the data and the reality of the market.

 

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I tracked a few 6306-7001 auctions for February 2020 on Yahoo Japan and the final gavel prices were as follows:

$517.32
$459.85
$823.88
$575.38
$594.92
$537.63


So in reality the watch can be had in the $500-$600 range. I am quite willing to bet most SCWF members would call them all "too low". But again, this is the data and the reality of the market.


Don't you have to pay taxes, in the UK VAT plus a clearance charge, when they are imported?
 

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@BillN I'm in the USA so while we can't protect our people against pandemics we can bring in boxes from Japan without restriction or taxation.

But how does VAT enter into the price discussion? I get that if you are in the UK buying from a UK seller saves you VAT so you can stretch the price a bit higher but these a final auction prices.
 

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Discussion Starter #89
@BillN I'm in the USA so while we can't protect our people against pandemics we can bring in boxes from Japan without restriction or taxation.

But how does VAT enter into the price discussion? I get that if you are in the UK buying from a UK seller saves you VAT so you can stretch the price a bit higher but these a final auction prices.
I'd say that the price is whatever you pay at the end of it; if you were buying from a dealer, VAT would be included in the price advertised (an eminently sensible system instead of the stupid sales tax rules in the US where visitors have no idea how much something is going to cost :)) Ditto, if buying in an auction where fees are charged - if I pay £600 for a watch then it's value is £600, regardless that it might have hammered at £450 and the rest is buyer's premium, delivery charges etc...
 

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I'd say that the price is whatever you pay at the end of it; if you were buying from a dealer, VAT would be included in the price advertised (an eminently sensible system instead of the stupid sales tax rules in the US where visitors have no idea how much something is going to cost :))

Ditto, if buying in an auction where fees are charged - if I pay £600 for a watch then it's value is £600, regardless that it might have hammered at £450 and the rest is buyer's premium, delivery charges etc...
Hey it's your thread but I disagree.

Say a watch selling out of Japan or the USA closes on eBay or watchuseek or YJ! or wherever at $500 USD.
Sure a European buyer might have to shell out say $700 to own the watch with Import Taxes/VAT etc.
But USA or Australia or Japan buyers would only have had to pay $500 And none of them wanted to go over $500

So it's a $500 watch. Not a $700 watch. It's just a sad fact of life that somebody in a VAT paying country bought it and got screwed out of $200 by their government.
 

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Discussion Starter #91
Hey it's your thread but I disagree.

Say a watch selling out of Japan or the USA closes on eBay or watchuseek or YJ! or wherever at $500 USD.
Sure a European buyer might have to shell out say $700 to own the watch with Import Taxes/VAT etc.
But USA or Australia or Japan buyers would only have had to pay $500 And none of them wanted to go over $500

So it's a $500 watch. Not a $700 watch. It's just a sad fact of life that somebody in a VAT paying country bought it and got screwed out of $200 by their government.
Yes, I suppose you do have a point in the case about buying from home country vs abroad; then again, if a European buyer did shell out $700 to acquire the watch, I still think it means it was worth $700 to them. Just like in an auction; did Paul Newman's Daytona sell for $15.5m or $17.75m? I'd say the latter, as that's what the buyer paid.

Another example - a US tourist in London could buy a watch from a dealer and claim back the VAT (here) - it could be in their mind that they'd never willingly pay the asking price, but they'd do it knowing they could get 20% of it back... and therefore the £1000 watch is only really worth £800-odd to them, and it's clearly not worth £1000 to anyone else in the UK, or it wouldn't have stayed in the dealer's window...
 

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This a good discussion. I’ve been trolling a couple of different online auction sites that take place in Europe that are run by professional auction companies (I’m in the US). One of them has a 9% buyers premium and the other has almost 30% (!). I did consider both of these when bidding, but obviously one more than the other. I also considered the expensive shipping too (~$80US in some cases). This definitely limited my bidding and so far I haven’t bought anything from these.

When I buy from our favorite auction site I only get hit with my local sales tax, about 7%. In this case I don’t really think about that added cost because it’s normal. It’s like buying a car here. If you’re spending $20,000 then 7% tax is a lot of money but the cost of doing business. On a $400 6139 for restoration, it’s not a factor. 30% - is a big factor in my bidding.

So it’s complex...


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It seems there will always be a disagreements with a "price guide" for any group of collectible items, it is inherent by the nature of the goal itself. In the 70s and 80s, pre-internet there was a man who published a price guide for Rolex watches, initially it was an annual subscription and then subsequently a monthly one. I cannot for the life of me remember his name, but I will look for an old copy, it was usually printed on green paper and most every collector of jewelry store watch buyer used it. The reason it was so widely used was twofold, it was complete for the entire Rolex and Tudor lines, in the end it also included some Pateks and APs but it was mainly Rolex and the prices listed were actual cash values that he would pay, not an estimate, based of course always on condition. Buyers could then decide what they wanted to pay based on what they knew they could always get for the watch, often showing the price guide like many gun buyers use the Blue Book. It worked because the man publishing the list was the buyer at those prices. I know that may not seem feasible in this case and not the goal of the author(s) which I do highly commend, btw. Even then people often disagreed with the guide and it was, at the time, the bible for Rolex collectors.If I find it I will post a pic of the page with the 1675 GMT :) In the 80s using that guide I purchased a beater 1675 for above value and paid $675, now I would say that 1675 ghost pepsi would probably fetch $20k. Thanks to the OP(s) for all of their hard work.
 

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I found one, it was called the Spect Sheet, the man's last name was Spect I think, he is out of Miami but I know he had subscribers worldwide. This is one of the most recent ones I have and from 05 just before my collecting changed. It is a "buy sheet" but by it's nature establishes "cash value" for any watch listed and any dealer who could buy for the Spect price felt safe. Retail value would basically be double.
spect.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #96
I found one, it was called the Spect Sheet, the man's last name was Spect I think, he is out of Miami but I know he had subscribers worldwide.
Thanks Vincent - that's really interesting. I did a bit of digging and found it is Specht Sheet - The Specht Sheet - "Does Your Watching"

I like the fact that he publishes it as a "I will buy your watch at this price" guide rather than a "this is what it should be worth". Then again, if they buy and sell watches, why would anyone sell them a watch at less than the "I will buy" price in their guide, and why would anyone buy a watch from them that was higher than that..? :LOL:
 

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Somewhat inspired by the excellent Speedmaster101 , Jim W and I have been working on documenting what we think are expected values for a variety of vintage Seikos.

It's by no means complete, it's by no means a byword in accuracy, but as Bart Simpson says, My Bubble, My Rules.

We've assessed watches on 5 conditions, from Poor to NOS, but only price estimated Running, Good and Collector. Prices are in USD and for head only, even though you wouldn't have a Collector or NOS watch without a corresponding bracelet (say). There are many variables but we think this is a good starting point for assessment.

We'd love to hear your feedback and thoughts...

See here.

Ewan & Jim
Where is the document? Thanks
 

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Thanks Vincent - that's really interesting. I did a bit of digging and found it is Specht Sheet - The Specht Sheet - "Does Your Watching"

I like the fact that he publishes it as a "I will buy your watch at this price" guide rather than a "this is what it should be worth". Then again, if they buy and sell watches, why would anyone sell them a watch at less than the "I will buy" price in their guide, and why would anyone buy a watch from them that was higher than that..? :LOL:
His prices represented "cash value" not what a buyer might think to sell it for out of their showcase, this was mainly a bricks and mortar thing but did flow into the internet because of its market share. It was not a "I think you should realize this amount from a well advertised sale" it was cash value or wholesale.
 
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