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Some more photos.
The first one is myself with 3 buddies at Khe Sahn Fob#3, in May 68. Seiko is visible on my left hand, which tells me the photo is probably flipped. I'm left handed.
 

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Maybe someone could tell me why the photos are sideways. Sorry about that.
My Seiko, as it appears today. When I got back from Nam I gave it to my brother, who kept in a box and never wore it. Then about 15 years ago he gave it back to me, for which I'm very grateful. It's been serviced and has a new crystal, but it's in great shape, especially for what it's been through. I still have the old crystal.
 

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MACVSOG

Hopefully you can see, with the expanded view, the "FOB-3" on the conex in the background. The other fella is Mike Mein, who is burried at Arlington. That photo, which was taken by Robery Shippen unbeknownst to me, was taken just prior to us jumping on a chopper and inserting into Laos. That was Mike's first and only mission. He was killed on November 30, 1968, with 5 others.
 

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MACVSOG

This is a photo taken just minutes after we got in from a mission in September 1968. From left, John Smith 1-1, 1st Lt. Mike Armstrong1-2, and me on the right, Tim Schaaf 1-0. It was a 7 day mission, the longest run out of FOB#1 in 1968, and we got shot down and had to be rescued by the chase ship.
Three very tired men.

Anyway, there you go.
 

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MACVSOG

BigBlue- You wanted to see a photo of myself with Tilt. There are a few from the 2007 SOA reunion. They gave me a birthday party and there are a bunch of photos of the bravest men I've ever known.

Go to the "Special Operations Association" website. Then to Archives, then photos, then SOAR 2007 part one. I'm the guy in the yellow print shirt. Photo 2 has Tilt standing up and laughing.
There are about 20 photos of the event.

Bunch of others in those photos. Pat Watkins(DSC recipient and my best buddy), Clyde Sincere (DSC recipient and my CO at Mai Loc), Clete "Babyson" Synyard, "Bull Dog"Smith(CO at FOB#3), Snake Adams (Silver Star recipient), and many others.
Not too many of us left at this point.

Blue- Let me know if you or others have any specific questions about the Seiko SOG watches.

Just to let you all know, although I Admire and appeciate you interest in the subject, I'm probably won't be a long term member on this site.
So, if you have any questions I can answer, have at it.
 

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This is me and Lynne Black (a SOG icon). We were on ALABAMA team together. I have the watch on but you really can't see it. We were just taking off in an H-34 chopper, out of FOB#3, Phu Bai on a mission, September 68.
I believe that the above photo and information was taken directly from a John Stryker Meyer article that can be found here:

https://sofrep.com/news/nva-general-sog-suffered-90-percent-casualties-pt-1-2/

(Featured image shows Lynne M. Black Jr. riding in a South Vietnamese Air Force’s 219th Special Operation Squadron H-34 in late November 1968, en route to a target in Laos. Talking on the radio is SOG team leader Tim Schaaf. Photo courtesy of John E. Peters)

 

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Bigblue- Are you suggesting I took the info off that article and that I'm not Tim Schaaf, that hansome devil in the photo? That is me.

Well, I obviously did take that photo directly off the article that Tilt wrote, I could't find my copy here at the house. But that's my photo pal.

If what I'm posting about myself is too hard for you to believe, that's your problem. I didn't come on hear to be called a liar.

I said i was interested in finding out the approximate value of my watch. That was my main purpose.

This whole thing has become a bit silly. Didn't expect this at all.

Good Luck.
 

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Bigblue- Are you suggesting I took the info off that article and that I'm not Tim Schaaf, that hansome devil in the photo? That is me.

Well, I obviously did take that photo directly off the article that Tilt wrote, I could't find my copy here at the house. But that's my photo pal.

If what I'm posting about myself is too hard for you to believe, that's your problem. I didn't come on hear to be called a liar.

I said i was interested in finding out the approximate value of my watch. That was my main purpose.

This whole thing has become a bit silly. Didn't expect this at all.

Good Luck.
I hope I don't step on either of your toes (Schaaft11 or BigBluKyle), but here goes...

As a long-term reader (and occasional poster) of this thread I've come to realize that it has become THE definitive resource for these really special watches. And along the way we've shared some really great stories, pics and become friends. It has also become a bit of an online touchstone for all things related to MACV-SOG and the US's participation SE Asian conflicts.

Mr. Scaaft11, I think what BBK is saying/asking (and maybe he is too polite and I am the a$$hole) is that we would like to see a picture of you that hasn't already been put up on the web or published in a book previously. And if you could share that, please include something relatively current in it too that helps confirm your identity WITHOUT giving up your more personal information. It could be as simple as last month's power bill showing the postmark date but with your finger over the address.

Why? Because some of us have encountered people - either online or in actual life - where they claim to be someone they are not. And especially now, when so much information is available online, some of them have become pretty sophisticated in their ability to convince others. And when we are discussing US Vets and veteran history we think it is especially important to maintain truth and accuracy. Mainly of out respect for our veterans and to a lesser degree, for the integrity of this thread.

Again, no disrespect or offense intended and I hope I did a good job speaking for the other contributors here.

As for the watch, it is a really fine example and it looks pristine. Recent sales have been as high as $2000 USD, so I would guess something North of that amount. Hope that helps you.
 

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carsandcapp- Thankyou for the well worded explanation. It's apparent to me now that I shared too much in an effort to give context to the watch, etc.
The only reason that I'm following up on this now is that I'd rather not have a group of folks left wondering whether or not I'm a fraud. So I'll address both of the questions you mentioned in your post.
1) Here you go, my VA ID, w/o my ID number. Hopfully, I haven't violated any federal states by posting it.
2) Re the photos. There are 2, one with the 4 of us at Khe Sahn(Dennis Chericone is the shirtless one who looks like he's ready to throw up) and the one with 3 of us.
I don't believe either of them have been published anywhere in the past. If they have,
I'd like to know about it. The others are all my personal photos that I shared with Jason Hardy for his books.

What I've also come to understand is that the value of my watch, even in context, is very difficult to determine. And, at the end of the day I'd never sell it. It goes to my daughter when I'm gone.

You fellows take care, this is an excellent forum.
 

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Also, at the end of today(2/1), I'm going to delete my last post. Don't want to leave my VA ID online.
Schaaf

Hi Tim,


I have been watching this thread with keen interest, especially since you posted. I feel your posts are one of the coolest turn this thread has taken (in a thread full of cool turns).


As far as value is concerned, I feel you are right. It is very difficult to pin down, and it is subject to change. When you leave it for your daughter, I would be sure to leave it with as much proof of provenance as you can give her. If you couple it with other bits of memorabilia, such as patches, knives, compasses, pictures, letters, articles, orders, etc., I feel the value would be multiplied exponentially (not only price-wise, but sentimental value as well). I am glad to see that you will keep it in the family.



I would say that your piece has more provenance than any SOG watch I have seen, and it is very cool to see you post here in a thread that is about you and your Buddy's.



I do have a question about the SOG watches. There are several variants out there that have been debated on. The 6119, which you have, seems to be the one people can agree on that was actually issued. That said, I was wondering if you remember seeing the others (6619 or 7005)? Or do you remember if they were used?


Finally I would like to say, on a personal level, that you and your friends inspired many that followed you, and the sacrifice you made is not forgotten. Thank you.




Adrian


P.S. I would definitely take down the ID pic. I am convinced that you are the real deal, and I can vouch for you (if that means anything lol).
 

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Adrian, thanks for your post. And I agree with you about "proof of provenance", and I do have many pieces of memoribilia; plaques, photos, letters, military awards (Silver Star, 3 Bronz Stars w/V, Purple Heart, CIB, Presendential Unit Citation), etc. I was also on the board of directors of the Special Operations Association.

Our group of SOG recon guys was very small, About 50% of us were killed in 68, not casualties, but killed. Now, most of us either know each other or are familiar with each others names. And our little group is getting smaller every year. I lost 4 great friends in the last year. John Smith, in the photo w/3 of us, past away just last month. He was one of my best friends. A great man. I don't have an exact number but there may not be 50 SOG recon guys left, certainly less than 100.
In retrospect I was a little naive to think I would be believed immediately when I came on here.

In answering your question, I was issued my watch(6119-8100) Jan-Feb 1968 at FOB#4, Da Nang. It was a brand new FOB and all of the Recon guys (maybe 30-40), were issued a couple of items.
Black pullover windbreakers, etc., along with the watches. But none of those bitchen knives(Randalls). I ended up carrying a baby ka-bar, the navy survival knife. It was still too big, the smaller the better.I think the officers kept the Randall knives, if there were any to be had. Also, you asked about patches? During my time (I came home
feb 69), we did not have patches. Those started being developed by the teams themselves after I left.


I assume the batch of watches we were issued at that time were all 6119-8100, but I'm sure, none of us were concerned about the serial numbers on the back. They were good watches, and maybe the first watch I had ever worn. I don't recall for sure but many of us had just recently gotten out of Special Forces training at Fort Bragg, and SOG was our first assignment, believe it or not. We had to learn and adjust quickly, or quite frankly, die quickly.
We had the highest casualty rates in the war, but we killed a lot of NVA.
Anyway, All of the other FOB's were ongoing by the time I got to VN in Dec67. So, I'm not familiar with who got what at any other FOB.
The only thing I can say with certainty is that only the recon guys were actually issued the
watches at FOB'#4, at that time. And that I believe they were all 6119-8100's.
As to other watches issued at different times at other FOB's, I have no info.
If you look at the photo of myself and the 3 others at KHE Sahn, none of them had the watch because none of them were on recon teams. They were all Special Forces medics.
Hope that helps.
Thanks Adrian
 

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Although I have never served I have Enormous Respect for the US Military and anyone who has served their country. Both of my parents were US Navy and I lived in a neighborhood just outside Washinton DC where most of the families were either US Navy or US Coast Guard. Later I went to a University in Virginia and spent a summer in Virgina Beach where I met countless guys bragging about being US Navy Seals. They were fakes and they disgusted me. My Parents did not raise me to Be No Fool!

I sincerely apologize as I have been harsh and unwelcoming. It is my nature to question anything or anyone who is unproven and untested and I certainly hope that you were not offended. I also appreciate you going through all the extra effort to ensure that your words are truly those of a MACV SOG Veteran.

We are thrilled and honored to have you here. Thank you Sir for your sacrifice, your bravery, and the example you have set for all of us.

Welcome to the Forum Tim!

Kyle
 

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Adrian, thanks for your post. And I agree with you about "proof of provenance", and I do have many pieces of memoribilia; plaques, photos, letters, military awards (Silver Star, 3 Bronz Stars w/V, Purple Heart, CIB, Presendential Unit Citation), etc. I was also on the board of directors of the Special Operations Association.

Our group of SOG recon guys was very small, About 50% of us were killed in 68, not casualties, but killed. Now, most of us either know each other or are familiar with each others names. And our little group is getting smaller every year. I lost 4 great friends in the last year. John Smith, in the photo w/3 of us, past away just last month. He was one of my best friends. A great man. I don't have an exact number but there may not be 50 SOG recon guys left, certainly less than 100.
In retrospect I was a little naive to think I would be believed immediately when I came on here.

In answering your question, I was issued my watch(6119-8100) Jan-Feb 1968 at FOB#4, Da Nang. It was a brand new FOB and all of the Recon guys (maybe 30-40), were issued a couple of items.
Black pullover windbreakers, etc., along with the watches. But none of those bitchen knives(Randalls). I ended up carrying a baby ka-bar, the navy survival knife. It was still too big, the smaller the better.I think the officers kept the Randall knives, if there were any to be had. Also, you asked about patches? During my time (I came home
feb 69), we did not have patches. Those started being developed by the teams themselves after I left.


I assume the batch of watches we were issued at that time were all 6119-8100, but I'm sure, none of us were concerned about the serial numbers on the back. They were good watches, and maybe the first watch I had ever worn. I don't recall for sure but many of us had just recently gotten out of Special Forces training at Fort Bragg, and SOG was our first assignment, believe it or not. We had to learn and adjust quickly, or quite frankly, die quickly.
We had the highest casualty rates in the war, but we killed a lot of NVA.
Anyway, All of the other FOB's were ongoing by the time I got to VN in Dec67. So, I'm not familiar with who got what at any other FOB.
The only thing I can say with certainty is that only the recon guys were actually issued the
watches at FOB'#4, at that time. And that I believe they were all 6119-8100's.
As to other watches issued at different times at other FOB's, I have no info.
If you look at the photo of myself and the 3 others at KHE Sahn, none of them had the watch because none of them were on recon teams. They were all Special Forces medics.
Hope that helps.
Thanks Adrian
Thanks Tim, much appreciated. Here is some information for you on the origins of your watch if you are interested:


https://www.plus9time.com/seiko-case-back-information



Thanks again for your posts here.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk
 

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Kyle- Honestly, no need to apologize, I understand.

You take care my friend,
Tim

Tim,

Thank You for your patience and understanding. I've spoken to a number of regulars on the forum and we are still shocked about you being here - it is truly a pleasure hearing about your experience in Vietnam.

Tim - could you please let us know if you remember what straps or bracelets were on the Seiko SOG watches when they were issued to you at FOB#4. Thank You Sir!

Kyle
 

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Kyle- All of the watches at the time I was issued mine came with a green colored nylon type band, with a standard buckle, meaning the strap had holes for the buckle.
I never saw any recon man go into the field with a metal watch band, ever. Everything that reflected light or made noise was an obvious no no.
 

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Kyle- All of the watches at the time I was issued mine came with a green colored nylon type band, with a standard buckle, meaning the strap had holes for the buckle.
I never saw any recon man go into the field with a metal watch band, ever. Everything that reflected light or made noise was an obvious no no.
Thank You Sir!
 
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