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Re: Speaking of completed auctions...

First, it's totally legitimate to discuss auctions, but second, what's wrong with this watch? Do you suspect a redial? It could be the color balance is off on the photos....
 

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Re: Speaking of completed auctions...

Looks very minty....in fact nicest one I have ever seen photos of. I'm sure the buyer will be very happy with this Bull Head:)
 

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Re: Speaking of completed auctions...

From the pics the watch looks in very good shape. You have reason to believe the watch is not in good shape? Why? Was it your watch?
 

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Re: Speaking of completed auctions...

LUW said:
From the pics the watch looks in very good shape. You have reason to believe the watch is not in good shape? Why?
spring-diver said:
Looks very minty....in fact nicest one I have ever seen photos of. I'm sure the buyer will be very happy with this Bull Head:)
water70proof said:
...second, what's wrong with this watch? Do you suspect a redial? It could be the color balance is off on the photos....
jason_recliner said:
Is this not all original?

What are the replacement parts?
Maybe I'm mistaken, but compare this image of an all original black bullhead (Botto's watch which is pictured in the bullhead buying guide), to the image from the auction:

here is a catalog page for comparisson:




here is another catalog page to check against:

[size=1em][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/Santeno/Adds/Misc%20Catalog%20Pages/6138Cat1.jpg


Botto's watch:




Auction picture:

[img]http://i.ebayimg.com/02/%21BssZBZ%21EWk%7E$%28KGrHqYOKjgEvPW%21dgMcBL46ncc9E%21%7E%7E_3.JPG


Look closely at the two and tell me what you see. Here is an image of aladinsane's brown bullhead to double check consistencies:




I see four things that lead me to question the claims of this watch being "MINT".

First is the bezel insert. The bezel insert in this watch has the word Tachymeter in the same color of yellow as the minute markers. the original watch pictured above, doesn't and neither do the two catalog pictures above. If you look closely at the brown and the black bullheads above, you will see that the inner edge of the bezel insert curves down and that the minute markers printed follow that curve down. That doesn't happen with the auction watch. in that watch the insert ends at a shar edge and the print ends at that edge. In my opinion the insert in the auction watch is a nice but incorrect modern after market replacement insert.

the second thing I see are the hands. more specifically, the subregister hands. if you look at the originals, the subregister hands have clearly defined axel holes that are the color of the mounting pinion below. The auction watch has tiny mounting holes and they are mostly white. This leads me to theconclusion that they are either replacements or repainted originals. since all the hands appear to be in excellent condition, my guess is that they are replacements. to verify, I would ask the seller for a picture of them under UV light. What i would expect to see is dead lume which will glow under UV light, but wont once the light is removed (or will only slightly - unless the hands has modern lume). I would also expect to see a fluorescent yeloow second hand that will glow brightly under UV light and not at all under an other light source. If I don't see that, then the hands are definitely replacements or refinished originals. They are so nicely done, that my guess would be replacements.

the third thing I see is the crown and case finish. the crown is obviously not in mint condition. It has several visible scratches. you can see them in the picture below and in a second picture in the auction. of more concern to me is the finish of the case in the area between the pushers. Now this could just be me or bad pictures, but it seems like the sharp case crease between upper and lower finishes has been rounded of in this part (it is sharp everywhere else). I wold expect this of a refinished case (even if slightly refinished), because this section of this case is more difficult to refinish than the rest. Again, this is just supposition on my part based on the images, but I would ask the question.

[img]http://i.ebayimg.com/23/%21BssZCcwEWk%7E$%28KGrHqIOKkIEvOEh1-4hBL46njVvNg%7E%7E_3.JPG


Lastly is the bracelet. more specifically this shot of it showing these very rough pin pushing direction arrows. I'll have to check with my original bracelet at home, But I don't recall the original fishbone's arrows being this big and definitely not this rough. I could be wrong, but IIRC, they are smaller and definitely machine stamped, unlike these which look like they were done by hand.




As I see it the watch is very nice - much nicer than most pieces that show up on the bay. however, it has definitely been worked on and has at least one major after market replacement part (and possibly others). There is no picture of the movement and the seller offers up no service history. Also I could be wrong, but the clasp seems to have an extender, which leads me to believe that the bracelet is short. It is a nice reconditioned piece, and it should have been priced accordingly. The price it went for is high, even for an NOS bullhead, which this definitely is not. maybe the seller didn't know, but he should not have made claims of "mintiness" if he didn't. the buyer definitely did not do his homework and let excitement get the better of him. Nice watch but someone way overpaid for this. Oh well, live and learn.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you, Gabe. Those were the exact points I was trying to elicit a response about. Next time I will get straight to the point.
 

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Hard to tell that it has been under 8 feet of flood water with the back off. Oh wait, That pic is from before the flood. Here is an after.

 

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I do like those Bull heads even though i know next to nothing about them, i was offered by an acquaintance in the UK a NOS Bullhead last month complete with box and instructions etc for the equivalent of about $130 !! but by the time i got home to read my emails he had sold it to some one else he had offered it to !! i nearly cried :'( :'(
 

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Phil said:
Hi. Note that pruchaser has 0 buys on ebay. Cheers Phil
Good catch Phil. It is a little suspicious that a noob with no prior recorded transactions would drop that kind of coin on this watch at the last minute. either the buyer really didn't know what he was doing or something fishy was going on. Oh well, let this one serve as a lesson to all of us. Bid and buy, but arm yourself with knowledge about what you are buying and practice patience so you can pay what an item is truly worth.
 

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First thing, that caught my eyes: the price is much too high!
Normal ones (without an anyhow useless box) go for 175 EUR in good condition, really mint ones might be worth 300.

Second thing: even if I'm not a friend of catalogue comparisons (as there are known differences between markets and I claim that some of the catalogue pictures might vary from actually delivered watches), the bezel insert really seems to be odd. In a best case it would be repainted.

Third thing: stay away!

Cheers,

Axel
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Some pictures of one of my black bulls to show the sharp lines and bezel insert of an unmolested case.
 

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Phil said:
Hi. Note that pruchaser has 0 buys on ebay. Cheers Phil

Also notice the winning bid was placed 2 days before the auction end, therefore creating a "ceiling" for other bidders who get caught up in the auction to bid up to.


I've been buying and selling on the evil empire for over ten years now and a new user (zero feedback and new user icon) bidding that much for a first purchase makes me think something smells funny...


I bet the next highest bidder gets a "second chance offer" after the winner mysteriously backs out. ::)


[Edit] Edited so as not to cast aspersions. Seller's username is quite common and any insinuation to parallels with this forum are retracted as they were opinion, not fact. [/Edit]
 

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ANY accusations based only on opinions and assumptions without actual facts to back them up will be deleted by me.
There will also be repercussions on whomever breaks this rule, no matter who it is.
 
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