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Discussion Starter #1
Heads up/Buyer beware:

US seller, shununu2009 knowingly sold me a "Seiko World Time Watch Sold As Is".

Requisite fuzzy pic from listing (which has been removed, except though my "Won" listings)....



Screen capture of the listing:



I bought it thinking that I would get a broken Seiko watch that I could mess around with. When it arrived it was quickly apparent that it was a cheap Chinese knockoff. When I contacted the seller about a refund, he/she first denied that he knew it was a fake. Then he tried to put the burden of proof on me to prove it was a fake . Then he basically admitted that it was a fake, but said it was my fault because even though he listed it as a "Seiko World Time" he never said it was an actual Seiko :-[

I have, of course opened up a dispute with Paypal (who have frozen the $19.99 in his account and put it in escrow) and at HIS suggestion escalated our dispute to eBay Customer Support.

The funniest part of this (I'm really not mad about it) is that he/she accused me of being ignorant of how eBay and Paypal works. He's got a seller rating of 37 and been a seller since November of 2009. I have been buying and selling on eBay (as walters_international, seller rating currently 3572 and Top Rated Seller / Power Seller) since 1999 and was one of Confinity (which later became Paypal through it's merger with X.Com) initial Palm Pilot users, also back in 1999.
 

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Amazing what people do sometimes. If it helps, going forward, if you're unsure about a piece you are interested in, just post pictures of it here on the forum and ask for advice. you don't have to reveal the sale or the auction (and please don't post a link to the auction), the pics will suffice. I'm sure the members will be more than happy to advice you.

As an FYI, I'm pretty sure there are no vintage seiko watches with a dual crown set up like the one in the pictured watch (and if there are they must be very few). The only vintage seiko's I'm, aware of with a similar (but not the same) type of dual crown set up are a small number of analog stop watches from the late 70's.
 

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It is my practice to avoid blurry watches and blurry women. Most times they only lead to regret.

I looked throught he seller's listings and it is just a random assortment of eBay junk found in garage sales. Certainly not a regular Seiko seller, so he probably had no idea what he was selling. I doubt anyone here will ever encounter him again.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the advice! I think I'll stick to buying "as-as" watches from someone like Ramon who is a trusted seller by the community.

I did try to find some info but my google-fu was weak.

Good news is that eBay has already issued me a full refund! (total of six hours from me sending it to Customer Support to me getting the refund)

I'm relatively new to watch collecting and have enjoyed learning what I can from the forum members here.

So long and short of it is that I learned a lesson that fortunately only cost me some time. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
nhoJ said:
It is my practice to avoid blurry watches and blurry women. Most times they only lead to regret.
:))
 

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It's OK. I once got a fake Orient from a similar situation...some guy cleaning out his drawers and had no idea what he had. In my case he offered to take it back, but it wasn't even worth the postage. I chalked it up to a learning experience and then took it apart. O0
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have that option as I don't need to send it back. I'll probably do that and then send it over to Ricky Lee at PMWF. He might be able to make something interesting from the case and inner rotating bezels. The movement appears to be made of stamped metal parts.
 

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I've learned to be VERY suspect of eBay auctions. Anything with the words HUGE, TURTLE and UFO I avoid like the plague. Mostly aftermarket crap from the P.I. Caveat Emptor -Ronbo
 

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That watch may turn out to have a cheap swiss movement rather than a Chinese one. The condiguration and your comment about stamped parts; sounds very much more like one of the Baumgartener or EB movements. It would likely still have been assembled by less than honest cobblers in China though :D
 

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These warning signs would have kept me from bidding: Blurry picture, watch sold as is, low feedback number and sellers response to someone that he knows nothing about watches. If you look at the odd assortment of garage sale stuff he sells I believe it. I'm not aware of a world timer watch with what appear to be chronograph pushers. Did you ask the seller specific questions about condition and what the pushers were for? The aparent lack of subdials with pushers makes it look like a flea market special.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Pin said:
That watch may turn out to have a cheap swiss movement rather than a Chinese one. The condiguration and your comment about stamped parts; sounds very much more like one of the Baumgartener or EB movements. It would likely still have been assembled by less than honest cobblers in China though :D
It's stamped "Remex Ltd. Hong Kong" and "One Jewel Unadjusted"
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Seikojohn said:
These warning signs would have kept me from bidding: Blurry picture, watch sold as is, low feedback number and sellers response to someone that he knows nothing about watches. If you look at the odd assortment of garage sale stuff he sells I believe it. I'm not aware of a world timer watch with what appear to be chronograph pushers. Did you ask the seller specific questions about condition and what the pushers were for? The aparent lack of subdials with pushers makes it look like a flea market special.
The "pushers" actually are used to rotate the two inner bezels, one marked with Cities and the other is marked with minute intervals.

I admit I was lulled by his 100% rating. I didn't ask him any questions as he had stated he knew nothing about watches and I wasn't expecting a working watch. I've bought and sold quite a few thousand things on eBay, but am new to buying watches there. A lesson has been learned.
 

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BobbyMike said:
I admit I was lulled by his 100% rating. I didn't ask him any questions as he had stated he knew nothing about watches and I wasn't expecting a working watch. I've bought and sold quite a few thousand things on eBay, but am new to buying watches there. A lesson has been learned.
Like I said before, I don't think he intended to deceive you. He just had no idea what he was selling. Granted, he should have offered to take it back, but at the low sales price, would you have bothered?

Think of it this way...you are saving someone else from getting this.
 

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nhoJ said:
He just had no idea what he was selling. Granted, he should have offered to take it back, but at the low sales price, would you have bothered?

Your probably right, he should have taken it back but he likely had no idea. I have had this happen to me before on some pinball machine parts. I accepted the mistake, had the item returned to me and refunded the money...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
nhoJ said:
Like I said before, I don't think he intended to deceive you. He just had no idea what he was selling. Granted, he should have offered to take it back, but at the low sales price, would you have bothered?

Think of it this way...you are saving someone else from getting this.
Actually he admitted he knew it was fake, one of the reasons I suspect eBay moved so quickly. All but his first reply to me was done through eBay messaging, which eBay has full access to.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Technoman said:
Your probably right, he should have taken it back but he likely had no idea. I have had this happen to me before on some pinball machine parts. I accepted the mistake, had the item returned to me and refunded the money...
We've found it's a lot easier to lose a few bucks, in the short run, and refund someone their money if there's a problem. I'd rather that happen than get a negative feedback. At our level that could mean a loss of a 20% rebate on our monthly fees. I think it's important to remember that we need buyers.
 

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BobbyMike said:
It's stamped "Remex Ltd. Hong Kong" and "One Jewel Unadjusted"
Ouch...that's the nastiest of the nasty :'(

I wouldn't risk damaging my tools playing with that one ;)
 

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hhmm, blurry watches and women....sounds like you need new specks or stop the drinking. :)) :))

nhoJ said:
It is my practice to avoid blurry watches and blurry women. Most times they only lead to regret.

I looked throught he seller's listings and it is just a random assortment of eBay junk found in garage sales. Certainly not a regular Seiko seller, so he probably had no idea what he was selling. I doubt anyone here will ever encounter him again.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Pin said:
Ouch...that's the nastiest of the nasty :'(

I wouldn't risk damaging my tools playing with that one ;)
That's almost approaching the point of being challenging. ;D
 

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Just think how different your post would have been though if you had found a RARE Seiko worth lots of $$$$$$$$$$ for only $20 because it was a blurry picture !!! Would you/we have notified the seller he had made a mistake in his auction and offered him a fair price after receiving it ?

A couple of my best buys have been blurry pictures with the seller stating the (auto) needs a new battery !! and i must admit to my ever lasting shame i never educated the seller, i just took the watch, dident want to embarrass them, well thats my story and i am sticking to it ;) :))

I personally have learned to take the rough with the smooth as it seems a fact of life we can't win them all but as long as we win the majority then i keep smiling :)
 
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