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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,


I notice fs items on the trade post forum from time to time that sell only in the country of origin. I notice this mostly with our good friends in the USA. Any reason why? Just a hassle to ship maybe? I see one fs post that only ships in the US, reduced in price. I'm wondering why sellers are limiting themselves. I just bought my Panda from a good guy in NC, USA. No problem with shipping at all. It took 13 business days and cost about $23 to ship into Canada so maybe that's the reason? I suppose I have patience. I admit I do get spoiled by Thailand mail, an unbelievable 5 business days to Canada for around $12! Anyway, what's the main reason for shipping only within your own country?
 

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Someone who ships only in the USA reduces their post office time significantly, even when you fill out customs forms ahead of time for foreign shipments. Any watch I have mailed to Canada took many days to arrive, don't know why. Had the same experience Canada to UK recently. I've had no problems US to UK, tho'. Hong Kong good, too.
???
 

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I sold many to US and bought many more. It takes about ten days and its just how it is. Its just part of the process and the tracking makes it exciting. Well I choose to look at it this way. If I would get my watches instantly It would be easier to appreciate them less? Mmmm....
It does happen that a member does not want to sell to canada but its the exception not the rule. :)
 

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US to Canada isn't so expensive with the same level of service as a domestic shippment. But outside of that area, it can get really expensive to send with tracking and insurance. I usually offer to send outside the US at buyers cost less whatever I would spend for a domestic delivery, for which most buyers aren't willing to pay for.
 

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I would guess it is due mostly out of fear and partially out of cost.
My first online purchase was from a seller in Singapore. I'll freely admit that I was very nervous about sending money off to a foreign land to a stranger in the hopes a watch would come back. Thanks Kohym for making it so smooth. O:)
There is fear of unscrupulous postal systems from the stories we hear of packages disappearing in the mail system, especially in certain countries.
It is hard enough to get recourse from the US postal system, let alone deal with a foreign system.

There is fear of buyers who may scam or claim it never arrived. While this may happen to packages sent withing the originating country, there is a feeling that it is "Safer" than if the package is shipped abroad.

While the fears above can be lessened with a fast, track-able shipping service, the cost is much higher and the available insurance declines.

For example, a medium flat rate box shipped USPS within conus is $11. To ship it to England or Singapore with insurance- $48. Buyers may not want to take that kind of hit.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yes, I can see the issues with international/overseas mailing. But between USA and Canada doesn't seem too bad, even with customs declarations and maybe other paperwork if you send by courier. However, I understand it can be a crazy deal to send expensive watches between USA and Canada. Thankfully, my price range is under $1000 !
 

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I'm in Canada and buy watches regularly from US, UK, Hong Kong, and Singapore, and on occasion from Israel, Turkey, and others without a lot of problems. Normally folks shipping from US will just send USPS, seems to work fine and costs little. The only issues I've ever encountered is with Canada Customs processing. What I've learned about that is never ship using a courier since this can trigger a duty charge, and always ship in a parcel small enough that it looks like a watch and not something bigger as this can cause an inspection. After a lengthy delay, I received one today that came in a cardboard box about a foot on a side, this one Customs marked as having been opened and inspected although without duty, probably wondering why such a big box for a watch.
 

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ArgyBargy said:
always ship in a parcel small enough that it looks like a watch and not something bigger as this can cause an inspection. After a lengthy delay, I received one today that came in a cardboard box about a foot on a side, this one Customs marked as having been opened and inspected although without duty, probably wondering why such a big box for a watch.
I tried to mail a watch on Tuesday, but I had to return home and put it in a larger box because the shipping label was A5 size. Using a larger heavier box also meant that It cost me a fair amount more than I charged the buyer for shipping. The buyer also stiffed me for the paypal charges, so that was 2 lessons learnt to my cost.

The buyer paid me in usd, which I immediately changed to euros when I received the money, it was only after doing this that I noticed that paypal had charged me 25usd. I tried to immediately refund the buyer (I did state on my ebay listing that if the buyer chose to pay via paypal, he was responsible for the charges !), but as I didn't have any USD in my paypal account I would have had to convert my euros back into usd, and get stiffed yet again by paypal.

So I'll think twice about sending valuable stuff outside of Europe in the future. For 50 usd watches it isn't a problem, but for the more expensive items, it really hits you in the pocket.
 

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As many have said, there are various reasons. shipping within the US is considerably cheaper than shipping overseas; It can be done fully within the USPS, so you don't have to rely in outside postal systems; Packages are fully traceable and fully insurable (which s not the case with packages leaving the US); there is a wider range of shipping options; you don't have to deal with customs; shipping can be handled remotely through automated systems (not so for international shipments AFAIK); it is generally easier to resolve shipping disputes successfully within the US than with non-us carriers; the USPS system is incredibly reliable and generally very fast (by comparison to most other countries); and of course a very large percentage of the watch collecting public is within the US market.

I think that all of these factors contribute to many US based sellers to either not wanting to be bothered with the added hassle of an international sale or not wanting to take the risks or pay the higher costs associated with international shipping. Also many sellers refuse to accomodate international buyers who ask sellers to mis represent the items in the package (so as to avoid duties), because every now and then a shipment gets damaged or goes missing, and then those very buyers who ask for the item to be misrepresented want the full value of the item returned.

Are sellers limiting themselves? Absolutely! Are there many other perfectly safe markets to ship to? Most definitely. Is there a lot of incentive for US buyers to ship internationally? Not as much. Is it safer, faster, cheaper and easier to just ship within the US? definitely.
 

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I sell to the USA only (most of the time) and the reasons are simple: I can ship with tracking for a very low cost in the USA, and I can do it all from my desk without needing a trip to the post office. Some days I just can't fit the post office into my day's schedule. I'm trying to keep things swift for the buyer by shipping promptly, because this is what I hope they do for me when I'm the buyer.

There is also an issue of perceived reliability. I say perceived, because our postal service is probably just as reliable as those in most countries. However, I do feel more confidence when shipping domestically because I know the item isn't leaving our borders or changing hands from one postal service to another.

Please understand that I don't personally take this restrictive determination lightly. Sellers who only ship to USA or North America are intentionally reducing their potential market tremendously! :eek: As with anytime a market shrinks, this has the effect of driving down the final sale price, and could significantly lengthen the time it takes to sell the item. So it's a big deal, and one that I wrestle with personally. I HATE having to say "no" to someone who wants to buy from another country. But at the end of the day, in an attempt to reduce my potential for headaches and/or financial loss, AND to best guarantee quick, reliable service for my buyers, that's what I feel I have to do.
 

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I have shipped with much success to Canada using USPS 1st class international parcel and takes about the same time as shipping CONUS. I have also sent packages to the UK, Ireland and Norway using same service without any hassles.

I would, however, be very concerned sending a watch over $500 in value internationally. In such rare case I would have to use FeDex, UPS or any other independent courier carrier to ensure more safety during transportation. But then you have customs...
 

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You know, when I read the answers to this question I was wondering about myself I get angry. This is supposed to be an international forum but when it comes down to it you want to keep it an All American affair. Foreigners want you to lie about the contents of packages, but when their
phoney postal system lose them they want a refund of the true value.
You know what? Kick out all those bloody foreigners. Keep it all to your self.

But don't bother about me: I am allready gone.
 

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whitemonster said:
You know, when I read the answers to this question I was wondering about myself I get angry. This is supposed to be an international forum but when it comes down to it you want to keep it an All American affair. Foreigners want you to lie about the contents of packages, but when their
phoney postal system lose them they want a refund of the true value.
You know what? Kick out all those bloody foreigners. Keep it all to your self.

But don't bother about me: I am allready gone.
Dear whitemonster, Please keep this nonesense off the board. If you are going to post here, it will be with civility and understanding toward other members.

This post was an inquiry as to why some sellers do what they do. It has nothing to do with making the forum or the SCTP an all american affair, and it has nothing to do with the forum being anti people outsuide the US. every single reply has given very valid reasons why SOME u.s.-based posters limit their sales to the US. IN no way does this speak for all sellers nor does it mean that the forum is in any way against sales to anyone. FYI, the same practices can be found in every single watch forum, and the concern is valid enough that on watch forum, TimeZone, created a shipping company (ParcelPro) specifically to address the issue. I myself use parcelpro when shipping high cost items internationally, and have never limited a sale to an international destination, but have limited where i will ship to using the USPS (mainly because of security concerns). I use parcel pro exclussively to ship to certain countries and will not misrepresent custom or insurance forms, as I have been burned in the past.

Do understand that it is every individual seller's prerogative to ship or sell to whoever he wants to. We might not like or agree with their chosen limitations, but they are what they are. I guess it just means more business for those sellers who do ship internationally.

BTW as an FYI, while a very large percentage of SCWF members are US based, if statistics are to be believed, more of our traffic is currently coming from the EU, and specifically from the Netherlands, so obviously this is not an issue that affects all members or all sales.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I would only try to use USPS between Canada and the USA, unless price of item being shipped restricts this. I have only had problems with courier services albeit not with watches. Low priced items with UPS get dinged with an unreasonable $50 minimum border charge last time I tried USA to Canada. I contacted our customs office and they said it was a blanket charge for border fees, although the late night infomercial kitchen item I bought had no duty fees, etc. (no it wasn't the Slap-Chop). Thank goodness all the tv stuff shows up at Walmart sooner or later. I tried buying a large telescope last year from a manufacturer in California, turned out to be cheaper if I went down to pick it up myself instead of all the courier charges coming over the border. I ended up refusing the item at my door because I refused to pay twice what the purchase price was. Frustrating since we, USA and Canada, work so closely together on things and engage in free trade agreements. I would guess new watches go through similar border fees and duty charges, unlike most used watches? I'm referring mostly to between USA and Canada since I live in Canada. International member please feel free to chime in as your input certainly does matter to me.


Thanks for the info about ParcelPro! I'll be sure to check it out.


Thanks guys,
Curt
 

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Dutchies rule :)

Never mind Whitemonster, he has gone out of bed with the wrong leg (he told me this afternoon :D ). When I read the asnwers, I don't recognize his remarks, they might have sprung out of his own experience.

I am sending most items from the Netherlands to the USofA, which sometimes takes 9 working days (and even more, since some stupid vulcano has decided to harrass our planes) and I ship priority. Almost never something else, because our postal rates are sky-high. Until now, I have been sending 3 orders for a second time, 1 was really lost, 1 came back to me (return to sender) and the third I just send out.

The postal services of most countries just do what they are supposed to do. Patience is needed, because packages sometimes are just forgotten and left on a shelf....


I have only had a few bad experiences, the last one when I recieved a beat up monster after having paid for a 95% Tita Sammi. And yes, it DOES NOT HELP resolving issues if such things happen. I still have not received a dime back from the seller who made a mistake. I received a mail with lies from the reciever of the tita Samurai who paid for the monster and still I proceed with selling and buying Seiko watches and parts to and from the USof A...
Call me stupid...
 

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robbie409 said:
Dutchies rule :)

Never mind Whitemonster, he has gone out of bed with the wrong leg (he told me this afternoon :D ). When I read the asnwers, I don't recognize his remarks, they might have sprung out of his own experience.

I am sending most items from the Netherlands to the USofA, which sometimes takes 9 working days (and even more, since some stupid vulcano has decided to harrass our planes) and I ship priority. Almost never something else, because our postal rates are sky-high. Until now, I have been sending 3 orders for a second time, 1 was really lost, 1 came back to me (return to sender) and the third I just send out.

The postal services of most countries just do what they are supposed to do. Patience is needed, because packages sometimes are just forgotten and left on a shelf....


I have only had a few bad experiences, the last one when I recieved a beat up monster after having paid for a 95% Tita Sammi. And yes, it DOES NOT HELP resolving issues if such things happen. I still have not received a dime back from the seller who made a mistake. I received a mail with lies from the reciever of the tita Samurai who paid for the monster and still I proceed with selling and buying Seiko watches and parts to and from the USof A...
Call me stupid...
[size=1em] - Hey you did ask... ;D

I do agree with everything you said though. problems happen and no shipping method is perfect. We all make our choices base don our experiences and what works best for each of us. what more can be asked?

I'm still perplexed as to why so much of our traffic comes from the Netherlands. Who would have thought the SCWF was popular there. Does that mean You gusy will start shipping some Amstel beer our way - 'cause your killing us with that Amstel light stuff.

;)
 

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Though I posted above on why some may not sell out of the originating country, I have sold only one watch through forums and it was to Australia. I stated in my FS post the price I wanted including shipping and paypal for CONUS and that international deals may be possible on a case by case basis. If I felt safe enough with the buyer (a regular contributor vs someone whose 1'st post was to pm me about the sale), and if they buyer was willing to pay the extra for increased shipping costs and insurance.
Everything went smooth.
 

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With all that has been said above, the one sales limitation that I have never understood is why anyone would limit their sales to the continental United states (CONUS). I say this because AFAIK, it is no different to ship a package to ohio than it is to Alaska or Guam. It is all the US whether you are living in Puert Rico, Hawaii of Illinois. they all use the USPS, with the exact same rates and shipping policies and protections. Unless I'm mistaken, it should not make any difference whether to ship within the CONUS or any other part of the united states, bet the an APO, in the Caribbean, the arctic or the south pacific.

Does anyone know if there is in fact a difference I'm missing?
 

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catflem said:
I tried to mail a watch on Tuesday, but I had to return home and put it in a larger box because the shipping label was A5 size. Using a larger heavier box also meant that It cost me a fair amount more than I charged the buyer for shipping. The buyer also stiffed me for the paypal charges, so that was 2 lessons learnt to my cost.

The buyer paid me in usd, which I immediately changed to euros when I received the money, it was only after doing this that I noticed that paypal had charged me 25usd. I tried to immediately refund the buyer (I did state on my ebay listing that if the buyer chose to pay via paypal, he was responsible for the charges !), but as I didn't have any USD in my paypal account I would have had to convert my euros back into usd, and get stiffed yet again by paypal.

So I'll think twice about sending valuable stuff outside of Europe in the future. For 50 usd watches it isn't a problem, but for the more expensive items, it really hits you in the pocket.

I would have to say that the buyer did not stiff you for the fees, You tried to get around the rules but were unable to.
Part of your user agreement with paypal states that you cannot charge the buyer for paypal fees
4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

and further down in the agreement

For Purchase Payments, the recipient of the payment will always pay the fee.



That is part of the hassle of using paypal but for the convenience it is usually worth it.

Edit: I just realized this was an example of my own America-centric way of thinking. The quotes from the user agreement above are from the US version of the agreement. I have no Idea if the agreement is different for other countries and I apologize if they are.
 
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