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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well i am putting a old friend a 1983 Seiko 6309-7040 back together with the right parts it always needed and i find myself needing to refinish a genuine set of hands..i remember a while back someone had used some kind of solution to replate them and they looked perfect...i just can not seem to be able to find it....i will need to relume them too...but i want the lume to match what i have and i am sure they will not be easy to replicate too...and does anyone remember who does stainless welding...laser welding?...i have the two lug holes a bit wallowed and want to fix that as well....God Bless and any help will so be appreciated...John
 

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Well i am putting a old friend a 1983 Seiko 6309-7040 back together with the right parts it always needed ......and does anyone remember who does stainless welding...laser welding?...i have the two lug holes a bit wallowed and want to fix that as well....God Bless and any help will so be appreciated...John
If you get the lug holes welded up John, have you worked out how you are going to re-drill them, I assume 'through drilling' isn't an option? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
well there was a thread here talking about laser?..welding..so that way you dont need to go thru all that...i just can not find it..i have seen many people talk about it...i can use the watch and it works fine...but i am very fussy so i want it 100%..i have also heard about some stainless epoxy too...the laser welding you do not have to do the thru drilling ...if my eyes were better..i would tig weld them myself...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Lewie...i think it was something like that...thank you...it was a thread that showed the hands just being dunked a few times till they were the finish you like...really appreciate it......God Bless John
 

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If you get the lug holes welded up John, have you worked out how you are going to re-drill them, I assume 'through drilling' isn't an option? :confused:
I have always wondered what the machine at the factory looks like that drills the holes in the lugs. Even the most modern huge diver cases till only has a 24mm lug opening. If you noticed older watches from the 30's and 40's always have the band pin holes drilled clean though the lugs. I have a couple of Seiko Sea Lion Weekdaters that have the lugs drilled the same way. These style also need the pins with the double sided pins to secure the bands properly. Thankfully when I bough my Sea lion it still hade the correct original band pins installed.

Michael
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
well i have often wondered if any literature or videos show the machining process...and how they came about....
 

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I have always wondered what the machine at the factory looks like that drills the holes in the lugs. Even the most modern huge diver cases till only has a 24mm lug opening. If you noticed older watches from the 30's and 40's always have the band pin holes drilled clean though the lugs. I have a couple of Seiko Sea Lion Weekdaters that have the lugs drilled the same way. These style also need the pins with the double sided pins to secure the bands properly. Thankfully when I bough my Sea lion it still hade the correct original band pins installed.

Michael
Well I haven't worked out a simple solution to this that could be done at home but I am a retired special purpose machine designer who, in my previous life, designed and developed production line machinery in both the lamp making and automotive fastener industries. In a production situation though, what initially comes to mind is a rotary indexing machine that the watch cases are loaded onto and one machining station with a double ended cobalt drill, one end RH helix, the other end LH helix, driven, at right angles , from the centre, like a car axle, that cams up into the lug space, when the movement stops at that station, then cams left, then right to drill the two holes, then cams down while the case indexes forward to repeat the operation on the other lug end, all quite easily achieved on a cam driven, rotary, special purpose machine...................:undecided:
edit:- Just realised that I'm over engineering this solution, I'm used to working in industries where many thousands an hour of components are made. :eek:hmy:
A rotary, cam driven machine, in this instance would be OTT with the number of cases involved :(, though using the same, right angled drill idea, (single ended and rigid though) with a hand loaded bench fixture where the watch case is moved , on a slide, to do the drilling, manually loading it four times into the fixture 'nest' to drill the four lug holes, would work quite well...............;)
 

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John, i know you said you need things to be 100%, but you did mention the stainless epoxy, well ive had an idea, could you not use the epoxy to fill the lug holes then whilst its still pliable fit two spring bars and then withba loup and oiler pin neaten up the area, leave the spring bars in place until the epoxy has set.
The only flaw i possibly see is the spring bars becoming fixed in place when the epoxy sets, you may well be able to "wiggle " the springbars whilst its still pliable so as the holes set with some movement/free play on the springbars if you see what i mean John.
 

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John, i know you said you need things to be 100%, but you did mention the stainless epoxy, well ive had an idea, could you not use the epoxy to fill the lug holes then whilst its still pliable fit two spring bars and then withba loup and oiler pin neaten up the area, leave the spring bars in place until the epoxy has set.
The only flaw i possibly see is the spring bars becoming fixed in place when the epoxy sets, you may well be able to "wiggle " the springbars whilst its still pliable so as the holes set with some movement/free play on the springbars if you see what i mean John.
Spray the spingebars with a silicone release agent, before fitting, would probably work :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
well that is exactly what i was thinking...but i too was worried about the bars getting glued in place...this is why i love this place...we work out the details...i will get some stainless epoxy and try it...worst it can do is not work...i have a old case to try on it first...John D..hey i am like you...i look at things and analyze it before i do it...that way i will have most problems solved ...i was thinking if i had to ...weld them up and redrill them thru and then weld up the outer holes...but really did not want to do all that unless i had too..
i will post a thread once i get the stainless epoxy here...maybe this will be a great way to fix a bad problem...God Bless and thank all of you ...John
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
well thank you...i have seen in industrial applications they have a stainless epoxy paste..it looks like ground up stainless...you just mix it like 2 part epoxy...and i am told it sand and works well...but it is very strong too...dont think i would want to use it where it is shown..but we will see...it is expensive...but if this works...cheaper than having it welded...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
hey has anyone ever used 40% silver solder?...i am told it is just as strong as the original stainless...but i am not sure this is true....it might be a good alternative too..
 

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John
I have used some stuff before and it had the consistency of putty and is not runny. So if you put some into the holes and then forced your springbar in I reckon you would be able to carefully remove the springbar before it set and it would retain the shape and size of the springbar. This stuff looked like a cigar and you just pinch a bit off and knead it until it is mixed and pliable. Don't recall it's name now but there must be something like that still around?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
well i am going to try and few methods and see what works best...i will make a thread once i can get a few cases with damaged holes..i want to see what works best before i start on mine...i think the 40% silver solder or the stainless steel epoxy putty should work well...but i want to see for myself...you have the right idea with the springbar...but i think i will try some wire stock the same size as the spring bar...that way i can just cut it out and not risk gluing one in or damaging one too...
 

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Well I haven't worked out a simple solution to this that could be done at home but I am a retired special purpose machine designer who, in my previous life, designed and developed production line machinery in both the lamp making and automotive fastener industries. In a production situation though, what initially comes to mind is a rotary indexing machine that the watch cases are loaded onto and one machining station with a double ended cobalt drill, one end RH helix, the other end LH helix, driven, at right angles , from the centre, like a car axle, that cams up into the lug space, when the movement stops at that station, then cams left, then right to drill the two holes, then cams down while the case indexes forward to repeat the operation on the other lug end, all quite easily achieved on a cam driven, rotary, special purpose machine...................:undecided:
edit:- Just realised that I'm over engineering this solution, I'm used to working in industries where many thousands an hour of components are made. :eek:hmy:
A rotary, cam driven machine, in this instance would be OTT with the number of cases involved :(, though using the same, right angled drill idea, (single ended and rigid though) with a hand loaded bench fixture where the watch case is moved , on a slide, to do the drilling, manually loading it four times into the fixture 'nest' to drill the four lug holes, would work quite well...............;)
It's not that complicated. All of the cases with blind (not through) lug holes which I've examined are drilled at a slight angle which allows a normal twist drill to just clear the opposite lug. Take an appropriately sized pin gage and insert into an undamaged blind lug hole, you'll see what I mean. They are not typically drilled inline with the opposite lug hole.
Here's an old 7009 to illustrate. I think the old diver cases are the same. I know the modern divers are done this way.

 

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It's not that complicated. All of the cases with blind (not through) lug holes which I've examined are drilled at a slight angle which allows a normal twist drill to just clear the opposite lug. Take an appropriately sized pin gage and insert into an undamaged blind lug hole, you'll see what I mean. They are not typically drilled inline with the opposite lug hole.
Here's an old 7009 to illustrate. I think the old diver cases are the same. I know the modern divers are done this way.

Sneaky! :eek:
 

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Because the holes are so shallow the angle is unimportant as long as the hole diameter is big enough to allow the tips of the springbars to engage. That's my theory, anyway.
 
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