The Watch Site banner

Rolex vs Seiko

17K views 53 replies 27 participants last post by  BenchGuy  
#1 ·
So I've been itching for a Rolex Sub or Datejust lately but I love Japanese made stuff and never really buy European for no reason really. What would be the Seiko equivalent of these two models and what are your personal opinions about each brands respective quality, movement, and value?
 
#2 ·
Not too much to say about it really.

It's common knowledge and evident that Seiko offers excellent quality, movements and value.

Rolex on the other hand offers excellent quality and movements but with a significant cost difference which for most may not translate to great value.

The SKX007K2 has similar design language to the Rolex Sub and is a fully pedigreed diver at a fraction of the cost. Numerous similar comparisons have been made in the past. You'll have to check them out and decide for yourself.
 
#26 ·
I think in all fairness, Reflex''s initial intent was simply to suggest that in the "DIVER" category, the Rolex Submariner can be compared to the SKX007 as two great diver watches on either end of the cost spectrum. It's not necessary for me to list the specs. of either piece, they are well known and easily attainable by all. The Seiko is within reach financially to a far greater number of potential customers looking for a dive watch that is beautiful to look at in its own right, has a pedigree as long as your arm, and if regulated, can be deadly accurate at keeping time. Is the Seiko in the same class as the Sub ? Obviously not. Let's not let semantics drive this conversation. The Sub and the SKX are in the same "DIVER" Catagory but not in the same "CLASS" of price, luxury, fit, finish, snob appeal etc.
I think they both provide a great deal of enjoyment and satisfaction to their prospective owners, whomever they may be. If its the Sub or the SKX or one of the other many options in the "DIVER" catagory, in this instance, afrothang gets to decide
 
#3 ·
Seiko's modern answer to the Rolex Sub was/is the Seiko SBGA029 Spring Drive 200m Air Diver. This was mine.

In virtually all departments it beats the Rolex Sub. The Spring Drive movement is more accurate by a country mile, the bezel is a more advanced construction, the dial is superior, the detail and finish are superior and up until the latest generation of Subs, the bracelet and clasp were also superior. I really enjoyed mine and if I had to choose today between the Seiko and the Sub I'd take the Seiko.

But "best" is subjective and the Sub is simply a classic that can't be ignored. If we think about how many Subs have sold over the years Rolex got that watch spot on in many respects and a recent survey in the UK showed the Sub to be the most desired watch among men. Having said that, ask the average Joe on the street if they've ever heard of a Seiko Air Diver and you'll get a look much akin to a cow chewing it's cud.

The reason I eventually sold mine was the same reason I sold my MM300 and MM600. I absolutely loathe the blingy Seiko bracelets with a passion. Call me what you like but my brain can't get past those little shiny links and eventually they drive me insane enough to bail out altogether.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Well, some Net sites say the SARB035 is a datejust-killer.

If you ask me though, there are several Seikos which more closely resemble the Datejust:

SNXJ89 for modern seikos
7009-3110 for vintage classic datejusts I mean Seikos (except for the Cyclops)
 
#5 ·
Thank you all for the input.

So Sub vs SBGA029 and datejust vs SARB035... Quality is comparable, movement is surpassed with the seiko, and value is skewed because rolexes cost more. How about physical durability. My sub would be a daily watch and I work with many who wear them daily as well. I would assume the SBGA029 would hold up just as well? What about the titanium version?
 
#6 ·
Both the steel and Ti versions will hold up fine. In fact, you're less likely to scratch the bezel of the Seiko than you are the Sub. Ti is light, robust and looks good up until the point when you scratch it. I've always found it marks fairly easy from standard desk diving and the marks show up more because of the darker colour. The steel version is a lot heavier so it depends on how you use the watch and if you prefer a weighty watch or a light one. Have a look at the version with the deep blue dial. It wasn't out when I bought mine but had it been I might well have bought it.

The new Sub clasps are very nice now and better than that of the Seiko. When I had my Seiko that wasn't the case. The clasp on the Seiko is OK but could be a lot better for a watch of that value.

In all the time I owned my Air Diver, about a year I think, it didn't lose or gain a second in time. It was always just spot on. And really, that's what a watch is supposed to do or at least aspire to do. My two Seiko Spring Drives were the only two watches that I've owned that ever pulled it off, though.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Something's missing in the posts above, and that is the a priori that a standard (non-GS) Seiko and a Rolex are to be compared in the first place. With the exception of Grand Seiko they are in different watch classes, just like a 7-Series BMW compares to a Lexus LS but it does not compare to a Lexus GS even though the GS is still one helluva car. Class entries are compared to compared other class entries. Otherwise there would be no need for classes.

With that out of the way, my Rolex Datejust is just superb. Nothing is amiss. It keeps insanely great time in all positions, weather, state of winding, regardless of whether I am golfing with it on or sitting watching TV, etc. For the first 2 years it was within 1 second per day regardless of anything. Now it is "up to 2 - 3 seconds per day" but on the timegrapher it is 0.0 ms beat error in all 6 positions and reads 1 spd sitting still. It maintains resale value very well. It is an instantly recognizable timepiece. And rugged beyond belief.

My Grand Seiko Spring Drive clearly keeps even better time but it has a microprocessor inside braking the gear train instead of an escapement so it should. It too has impeccable fit and finish. The GS Mechanicals do not keep any better or worse time than a Caliber 3135 Rolex or their new one in the new larger 40 mm Datejusts.

Resale wise any GS takes a huge hit. Maybe 50% MSRP after 2 years. Get a new Rolex and you'll get back 75% for the next 5 years if you don't bang up the case and it won't drop to 50% until it's 10 years old.

Come service time the Seiko will cost a king's ransom for the movement with no other work done. Th Rolex will also cost a tidy sum if you send to the Service Centers (but they do a complete case and bracelet refurb and it looks brand new when you get it back) or go find any reputable decent real watchmaker and he'll do it for less than the GS service cost.

Finally - do not buy one or the other based on comparing them - but the one that sings to you. Wear both of them at the dealers. Feel the comfort and weigh what matters to you. If you'll never sell resale value is moot. If you plan to flip it's huge. The bracelets are very different. The Datejust has a Zillion dial choices in the catalog go order what you want and any decent Rolex dealer won't obligate you to buy it if you agree to buy another instead.

And yes, SEIKO totally competes with Rolex in the world of high-end timepeices but please don't compare an SKX007 to a Rolex Submariner. It's a silly comparison. Like saying your loaded Camry is as nice as your neighbor's Mercedes C-class. They are both smooth and quiet and loaded with goodies and you are entitled to genuinely prefer the Camry but only a fool would say they are equal rides.
 
#10 · (Edited)
And yes, SEIKO totally competes with Rolex in the world of high-end timepeices but please don't compare an SKX007 to a Rolex Submariner. It's a silly comparison. Like saying your loaded Camry is as nice as your neighbor's Mercedes C-class. They are both smooth and quiet and loaded with goodies and you are entitled to genuinely prefer the Camry but only a fool would say they are equal rides.
In fairness, Jon, we're comparing an SBGA029 to a Sub. The former is a ÂŁ6k watch over here so it's not exactly apples and oranges.

For me, where the big difference lies is not in the technical differences of the watch, the quality or the aesthetics, much of which is subjective. The big difference is that, for many, the importance is all in the name. The Rolex Sub and Datejust, exactly as you said above, are instantly recognisable and certain people will attach a status and label to you when they see you wearing one.

I guess you then have to decide whether you care about that, like it, dislike it, need it or are appalled by it. :grin:

If we think about this purely on technical merit, the "real" goal of a watch is to accurately tell the time. So if two watches can do this equally reliably then the one with the best time-keeping ought to be our choice. On this one the SBGA029 wins.

But of course looks are also important. That's so subjective we may as well simply label that one a draw.

Quality-wise, I've owned them all and preferred the new style Sub bracelet and clasp to the SBGA029 in terms of quality. The SBGA029 won on dial, bezel and hands. Couldn't see any difference quality-wise between the two cases so let's call this one a draw, too.

Re-sale value, Rolex will always win here because it appeals to a much broader market and they raise their prices circa 10% per year.

Last category: instantly recognisable status symbol. Rolex wins hands down but only if you want that and associate with the kind of people who place an importance in that. Here the Seiko wins for me but I've been called an inverted snob for saying as much.. :grin:

(Do read all of the above with a tongue placed loosely in one cheek.)
 
#13 ·
Continuing on the subject of resale. How important is it that the watch comes with box and papers come time to put back on the market? Is it really that important given that the watch is authentic and verifiable via a dealer?
 
#15 ·
why not Rolex AND Seiko? Here are my two favorites. I asked a very pretty intern to take the picture.



Image


and by the way, I am equally passionate about them (the watches, not the intern) both.

Sent from my B15Q using Tapatalk
 
#16 · (Edited)
sorry guys. I should have rotated the picture before posting. Can it be done through edit, Moderators? I'll just post the correct picture. Sorry!!
 

Attachments

#19 ·
The relative merits of the 2 brands have been well covered but my only addition would be to reiterate that Grand Seiko for all it's merits is far less known than Rolex. Therefore if intending to flip you need to accept a greater depreciation for Grand Seiko. Having said that I would buy a Seiko GS Quartz purely for the beautiful case work and the extreme accuracy ( if funds allowed) YMMV.

Sent from my F1f using Tapatalk
 
#20 ·
I repair both. Rolex uses better materials, engineering and machining. As a result, I can service a 30 year old 3035 which has been moderately abused...replace parts as needed...and return the performance to as new. On the whole, Seiko drivers are not much on periodic maintenance. Seiko mainspring barrels are deplorable...chief issues being wear in the arbor and its bearing surfaces with the barrel and cap...as well as wear in in the bearing surface of the bridge and (to a lesser extent) mainplate. This robs power and kills amplitude. Good luck finding new replacement parts (eg. barrels for 7S26)...and if you do, the machining tolerances only assure you Seiko's consumer grade accuracy guarantee of -20/+45 s/d...although we usually see better than this...but rarely -4/+6 (as with Rolex). GS is an improvement...but why pay that kind of money for the Seiko label...which consumers consider to be Ford/Chevy quality? Best value...used Rolex...(preferably) with box/papers...3135 movement. Plan on service every 5 years @ about $350 from independent watchmaker (and choose carefully). Regards, BG
 
#25 ·
Very interesting, the comments.
Although, the main similarities is that they are both divers, I would nominate the mm300 to be the sub counterpart. It's quintessential, a staple of the brand. Of course not as well known, but similarly transcends its genre and brand's customer base.

As for the Datejust, it would have to be a grand seiko dress watch, which I've never owned one. Settling on a datejust is pretty simple compared to a grand seiko which has so many models, variants, LE's, movements,. etc. Its as confusing to me as looking into Panerai
 
#27 ·
Very interesting, the comments.
Although, the main similarities is that they are both divers, I would nominate the mm300 to be the sub counterpart. It's quintessential, a staple of the brand. Of course not as well known, but similarly transcends its genre and brand's customer base.

As for the Datejust, it would have to be a grand seiko dress watch, which I've never owned one. Settling on a datejust is pretty simple compared to a grand seiko which has so many models, variants, LE's, movements,. etc. Its as confusing to me as looking into Panerai
There are hundreds of combinations with the Datejust. That is a big reason why they sell more DJs than all the other models combined.

Dials, Bezels, choice of Super Jubilee/Oyster/Strap and within that more choices. Mind boggling.
 
#29 ·
I am a young collector and while I love my GMT Master II, I find it inconvenient to wear most of the time because of the worry that accompanies it. That being said, my baby tuna is probably my biggest go to. I find it rugged enough to wear without worry and it also gets a lot of positive attention.
 
#31 ·
From someone that only knows Seiko and Rolex by name and that Rolex = Luxury, I find myself liking way more Seiko watches than Rolex. They just look more modern, sleeker, nice IMO.

Now will I ever own a Rolex? I plan to as a gift to myself after grad school. You know...the "I made it" purchase. But I certainly would never give someone crap for a Seiko! They look amazing.
 
#33 ·
Both are reputable brands. Some people like both, some don't. It all depends on how deep your pockets are and what you want from a watch.

There are plenty of people that own both a Seiko and a Rolex. Usually Seiko Divers as they are the most iconic Seiko time piece.
 
#35 ·
I have two Grand Seikos (SBGA011 and SBGR083) and a Rolex Submariner. When I compare the two Seikos with the Submariner the comparison tends to favour the GS, but one can't unequivocally say that one is better than the other. The truth is that a GS has advantages and disadvantages, just like the Rolex.

The Zairatsu-polishing of GS is unrivaled. It's undoubtedly one of the hallmarks of Seiko. Also the texture of the dial is impeccably well-made. The movements are roughly the same quality. The 3130 movement of Rolex is very accurate, within one second a day. This is more accurate than the 9S65 movement of my SBGR083, but the watch is a couple of years old and maybe in need of servicing. For the bracelet the Rolex has the advantage. The five-link bracelet of GS is a little bit too loose in my opinion, while the Submariner has a more sturdier bracelet. Overal I would give the advantage to the GS but the build quality of Rolex is very high, I only think that they're overpriced (which Rolex can do given their market situation).
 
#36 ·
I would have a Seadweller if I could muster the will to spend that much money on one watch or if someone gave me one, but I always come back to the simple math of accuracy.

There are 86400 seconds in a day and Seikos (7s26) accuracy of -15 seconds is 0.017361111111111% of perfect and A rolexes accuracy of -6 is 0.0069444444444444% of perfect. Statistically those numbers are so close to Zero that they are meaningless so other than spending that much money for as someone else mentioned some kind of significant example of technology I can't find a good reason to waste my money on a Rolex when I can buy dozens of significant Seikos and wear a different watch every day for the same money. I wouldn't trade enough of my Seiko collection to buy a Rolex so why should I spend that money outright on one?

It's not that I can't afford it, I have Omega's Breitlings, Tag's they all cost far less than a Rolex though. I just don't see how Rolex has earned my hard earned money.
I suppose before I die I will have to buy a Rolex just so I have one, I've worked of a few over the years, didn't find them that remarkable a little over engineered for the task but the same can be said for Omega and their co-axial movements too and I already own one of them...

I'm always reminded of "The emperor has no clothes" when I think about buying a Rolex and I just know I'll have buyers remorse for doing it...
 
#37 ·
What has to be addressed is that Rolex has been rated as the #1 brand name in the world.
I read that again recently, but don't remember the actual reference. However, the top 100 brands were listed, and it was not a watch industry survey, just international brand names.
I own multiple examples of both brands and, to me, they both exemplify superior watches. However, for my rowing training and racing, I prefer to wear a less expensive watch that can be replaced without breaking the bank.
 
#38 ·
There's no BIG difference ...Rolex, too much bling-bling for nothing and you pay for the name more than other things and it's too expensive. Seiko is a sober and quality brand too but without too much bling-bling. And today, Seiko manufactures very precise watches.

Personally, I have nothing against the Rolex brand, on the contrary but I never wanted a Rolex And I will never have any, and I will never pay the big price for a watch that is supposed to give the time. A hundred dollars (in Euro I do not know how many) for a quality watch like Seiko is correct. ;)
 
#41 ·
To be entirely objective is never easy, especially in matters of taste.
Is a Honda Civic better than a BMW M5? The former is totally reliable and, with minimal maintenance, will perform as designed for decades. The latter, at 4x the price, requires much more and costly maintenance. It will also last decades. So, if transportation is the only requirement, perhaps the BMW is grossly overpriced. However, if you factor in the driving experience, the conclusion may be different. Similarly, if extremely accurate timekeeping is the requirement, Seiko is by far the best price-adjusted watch. Conversely, if the wearer derives an intangible benefit from wearing a high quality Swiss watch, who is to say which is better? Each to his own has been said a few times before. Lucky is the WIS who appreciates and wears both.