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Ultimate Collector
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We all prefer our watches to be all original. But sometimes original parts are just too scruffy or cannot be sourced. (Try to find a gold gilt second hand for a 6309-729B..!)

I don't mind aftermarket hands....
To be honest even with very close inspection with my loupe I struggle to tell some of them from originals. Some are that good. That's great and a service to people who want to restore the looks of their watch.

I don't mind aftermarket bezel inserts....
Several of my watches have quality AM inserts I am very happy with. Yobokies in particular are very good. They keep our watches looking smart.

But I hate and detest aftermarket dials....
An absolute deal breaker for me is an aftermarket/fake/new/repro/repainted - whatever you want to call it, dial. Nearly all 6105/6309 divers on eBay have an AM dial of some sort or another. Some of them are horrendous.

I also have some classic cars that are restored, and some aftermarket parts are inevitable. But I want the original engine and bodywork with as much of the rest of the car original as possible. A watch dial is in your face, and has got to be right.

What do you guys think?
 

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+1 on the watch dial. I think we had a thread about this not so long ago ;)
 

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Ultimate Collector
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Discussion Starter #3
+1 on the watch dial. I think we had a thread about this not so long ago ;)
Yes I am sure it crops up regularly. I just think some 'restorers' are a bit too quick to toss out an original dial and replace it with a poor quality repro (or AM 6105 dial on a 6309) to make a fast buck. - Not realising they are losing the originality and future value of the watch.
 

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I pretty much agree with everything you said Jim.

I can accept a good insert and a "new" crystal if no originals about but that's about it for me with after market parts.

I just don't like, in some cases hate after market dials full stop, at the moment that is as in the future there may be "replacement" dials that are really good and then I/we will be in a quandary :)

I also agree about some of the hands being REALLY good but as yet I have only fitted one after market hand to one of my own watches :)

I was looking at this dial and compared to some after market one's this isent that bad, imo, but i wouldent use it in my own watch :)

 

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I agree with you Jim. I had recently posted about how difficult it is to find an original 6309-729x.
I don't mind AM bezel inserts, as long as they don't deviate too much from the original. Decent AM crystals and minor hand-refinishing of the case are also okay with me. But, AM dials and hands are a complete deal-breaker for me.
 

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Ultimate Collector
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Discussion Starter #6
John, it's horrible. I know there are worse, but that is exactly what I hate about aftermarket dials. It really is awful and can only devalue a watch. I've got a couple of watches with poor dials. I just put them to one side for the moment.
 

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Well poor aftermarket parts really take away from a beautiful watch...there are some aftermarket parts that are amazing...i just wish they could make better replica dials...it would help everyone...God Bless John
 

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I don't mind aftermarket parts. Originals are hard to find for such old watches. For dials...i really couldn't even tell if my 6309 dials were aftermarket. I'm not about to put all my dials under a loupe or carbon date them. But if they look like the same style then i'm all good. Like the color diff on text between green, orange, red, or grey?...

Has anyone ever seen that pogue AM dial wear the 9 index cuts right into the text?!

One thing that does bug me is when the dial is old and grungy and the am hands are blindingly glowing fresh c3 lume.
 

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I am far from being as experienced as many people on here (previous posts prove that!!); but, in my opinion mismatched lume colours on watches with aftermarket hands and dials makes the whole "aftermarket" scene suffer. When everything looks right it is easier to accept it.

On the other side of that is the closer they look to original, the greater the chance someone will over-pay for an "all original, untouched, one owner, only driven to the church on Sunday" aftermarket special.

WT
 

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...i just wish they could make better replica dials...it would help everyone...
You haven't thought this through, have you?

The only people it would help is the fakers trying to pass off their '6309 DIVER, RARE, NEW DIAL' etc etc trying to catch out the unwary on ebay.

What about all those people who are new to this hobby and end up paying over the odds for a fake / reprinted dial believing it to be original? And what about all the collectors who spend many hours - years searching for a nice original example only to see some of the polished shite on ebay going for more than a good honest all-original?

If you want an original looking watch at replica prices then put the hours in and do some homework and you might just find a bargain, otherwise put your hand in your pocket and pay the going rate for the real thing.
 

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the only AM parts I will use are the xtals. in my eye, they are wearable pieces akin to brake pads on a car. other than that, no other AM pieces knowingly touch a watch that I own.

that's why I have so many unfinished watches...! I waited years to get some indicator rings for my -6032s that are at the mechanic now. there's nothing like finally getting that last piece you need to fix up a watch.

<* shark >>><
 

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the only AM parts I will use are the xtals. in my eye, they are wearable pieces akin to brake pads on a car. other than that, no other AM pieces knowingly touch a watch that I own.
...
<* shark >>><
That's what I think about bezel inserts. They inevitably scratch, just like crystals. I guess they are meant to be replaced, are they not?
 

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the only AM parts I will use are the xtals. in my eye, they are wearable pieces akin to brake pads on a car. other than that, no other AM pieces knowingly touch a watch that I own.

that's why I have so many unfinished watches...! I waited years to get some indicator rings for my -6032s that are at the mechanic now. there's nothing like finally getting that last piece you need to fix up a watch.

<* shark >>><
Well said..................
 

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I think John's point is valid.
a desire and a market for a decent quality aftermarket dial is important. unfortunately there is going to be a finite resource in the supply all of original good-quality Dials.
Just like the just like that analogy there will always be I mint Shelby 500 and Kit Shelby 500.
A mint Mini Cooper s will attract a different enthusiast than a Mini Cooper modded to an s.

The car will still be the pride of someone's garage.

It is a pity that the aftermarket market has enabled people to scam unwary buyers in purchasing aftermarket vs original.

At the end of the day I'm sure we have all purchased a Filipino mod when we thought we were purchasing an original. It's just a lesson learnt.

I love seeing newbies post here questioning the authenticity of various watches to ensure they don't get duped.

I will continue to where my moderately modded 6309 with pride.
If I was to mod a dial I would probably look for something that was marked differently from the origin whilst maintaining the original styling.



I've also swapped the original movement for a Donor movement that has a French English day complication. this probably also reduces its authenticity but I like Vendredi!
 

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I think the lack of high quality replica dials is due to the fact that you can not manufacture an affordable high quality replacement dial.
Some collectors who have original dials in good condition have no interest in seeing any high quality dials made anyway because then anyone can take a diver with a faded out worn dial and bring it back up to good condition which I guarantee would hurt the resale value of the original watches. It would take having to put a known real dial side by side with a high quality replacement dial to tell if it is real.
I don't think we will see any made. No quick easy money to be made so it probably will not happen.
 

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That's what I think about bezel inserts. They inevitably scratch, just like crystals. I guess they are meant to be replaced, are they not?
none of mine are replaced; i guess I'm lucky and haven't really had any bad ones =) if i put a scratch, ding or dent on any part of my watches while i am the wearer, i leave it - it's part of the history of my ownership.

furthermore regarding bezel inserts, i don't think Seiko has "separate" inserts. when you want to replace the insert, you have to get the whole assembly as the bezel and insert are sold as one - at least the divers bezel assemblies are.

<* shark >>><
 

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Don't have watches with AM parts at the moment, but I don't have any hate on AM parts, including dials. In fact, if ever a part can't be sourced out in at least decent condition, AM parts will always be welcome.
 
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