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Discussion Starter #1
I wanted to show some shots with both of them side by side. I even put the original bracelet back on the Sumo (I was wearing it on an Anvil) to have both looking stock:










Before doing this, to whomever asked me I would say that the Sumo was the dress diver and the O300 was the tool diver ::) . But after looking carefully at both of them on my wrist, I may have to change my statement a bit :eek: . I continue to regard the Sumo as a dress diver, but I don't think I can see the O300 as a real tool diver. Yes, it's pretty thick, so with that characteristic it would be trés hard to consider it as a proper dress watch, BUT with the overall quality of the watch and terrific craftsmanship, it's definitively not something I would immediately think of as something "rough". My Citizen NY054 is rough: no high-polished case, rough crown spinning, no fancy details - it's basically something to be worn and forgot about. The O300 is not, it's a watch to be savored, maybe even babied, something that I really can't associate with what I understand as a "tool watch". Of course it's not delicate, but it sure is refined.

At least in my eyes this is not a flaw of the watch, but I think it's quite peculiar that I would find it to be refined. I can't pretend that I know very much about watches, far from that, but I have been around the block enough to spot the differences between a good and a bad watch, and enough to differentiate something rough from something refined. Of course it's not like a JLC Navy SEAL Palm Springs Special Edition ( :D - I still laugh every time I remember Toby writing that), that I would NOT consider to be a "real world diver" but something to be worn only at a Country Club, because the O300 will deliver if you really take it down deep. Not that the JLC won't deliver, but I think you get what I'm trying to say - it's not a watch to be casually worn or used like an Orient.

This is the first time I have to change my opinion about a watch after I received it. Of all my watches, when I got them I confirmed what I expected, but with the O300 I thought it would be a more casual kind of watch, not something I would consider refined. Of course, being 17 mm thick basically kills it if it was going to be worn with a suit, but if it was thinner I honestly think it would do just as well as a Rollie diver or a Omega PO or SM.

What do you guys think?
 

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Glad you got a giggle out of that one mate.

I sprayed Pale Ale all over my screen when I first read that JLC was doing a 'Beverley Hills' (whatever that means) LE of the already absurd Seal.

And I know what you mean about the OS300. It might be big and bad, but it's also beautiful. Much too nice to get all dinged up, at least if it were mine (which, hopefully, one day it will be).
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I know that this has a lot to do with "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", but I was honestly surprised since I was sure I was getting a tool diver, like my BFK or Orient Poseidon RM2. A nice watch but butchy and no-nonsense, something to wear and not fear getting eventually scratched. However, what I received was definitively a big watch but it was refined, a term that I didn't expect to see linked to a so-called tool diver.

I'm REALLY surprised by this watch, and very glad I got it. I always had this thing about Seiko x Orient, where Seiko would always be the premier brand and Orient the casual and pedestrian brand. But now I have definitive proof that that is not true. Cool!


For the record, JLC is a grail brand for me, their Reverso watches are the stuff of wet dreams, but for pete's sake, sometimes these high-end brands stretch the concept of class and exclusivity waaaay too much ::) .
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Tell me about it... ::)
The worse part is that there even was a MM300 up for sale locally here last week, and for a honest price. I didn't have enough ammo to go for it, and I'm still worried about the possibility of having trouble when the day comes to get it serviced :eek: .

But it's definitively a grail for me.
 

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I think the OS300 fairs very well against the MM300. The thing with the Seiko is the supposedly more "refined" 8L35 movement and the unsual case monocoque construction. It is a classic watch. The current version has been in production for over 10 years, so talk about tried and true.


I am not a diver watch type of guy, but would not mind having a blue Sumo and the OS300, although, both of which would be wasted on me as I don't partake in water activities.


Let's see what watch I end up next year with when I turn 40.


So far these are the likely runner ups.....


Seiko Ananta Spring Drive Chronograph SPS007





Seiko Brightz Phoenix Automatic Chronograph 6s37 SAGH007:







Citizen Chronomaster in Stainless Steel or Titanium with Duratect coating:


 

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Discussion Starter #8
The Chronomaster is a real beauty!

However I'm no fan of chronos - I only had one, a Citizen Blue Angels, but flipped it. I think those dials are too busy, I rather have something plane and simple like this Chronomaster.
 

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LUW said:
Tell me about it... ::)
The worse part is that there even was a MM300 up for sale locally here last week, and for a honest price. I didn't have enough ammo to go for it, and I'm still worried about the possibility of having trouble when the day comes to get it serviced :eek: .

But it's definitively a grail for me.
Hi, Luw!

It will be the same trouble you'll run into upon getting the OS 300m serviced (which I also own, by the way.....congrats on your great taste and Happy Birthday, brother!) when it comes the time, which I'm sure Orient Brazil won't accept in their facilities, claiming it's an import model - I have already checked with them.

To be completely honest, the guy from the authorized repair service branch here in Sao Paulo told me that they can even accept it in, but in case you ever need replacement parts, those will have to be sourced from Japan, something they are not totally sure they might provide to you. :(

Of course, there's always the possibility of finding an independent and competent local watchmaker, but what if you end up needing replacement parts? Gaskets, for instace? Yes, because to own such a tool diver like that and not being able to get a good time at the pool with it is the same as having a Lotus in your garage and only be able to drive it around downtown, in the rush hour, under the city speed limits.....a regular VW would accomplish you that much cheaper, know what I mean?

The answer to your fears (actually in both cases, OS 300 and MM 300) is send them in to their respectives motherships, in Japan - unless someone here can source OEM Orient extra parts and sell them to you. I know it can be done here with the majority of Seiko models (MM included), but I have never seen the usual parts guys provide OEM Orient parts, much less JDM Orient models (someone correct me if I'm wrong)....
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Chris, what I think I would do is try to source the parts needed from Japan (via Three Amigos or somebody with contacts that is willing to help) and then getting the watch to somebody good here, like Carregalo or maybe even Adriano (never worked with him but I know he knows his business). Getting the watch back to Japan and then back here besides the (huge!) risk would be the mother of all hassles, and not to say very expensive.

The OS300 is a bit easier, since quite a lot of the parts are the same used on the Poseidon, so only a few parts would give me trouble. But with the MM300 everything would have to come from the country of the rising sun ::) . Still, nowadays, with the internet and how easy it is to get in touch with the whole wide world, it's not something impossible. Maybe takes time and can get a bit expensive, but not impossible at all. I guess what really holds me back on the MM300 is the price :eek: .
 

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LUW said:
Chris, what I think I would do is try to source the parts needed from Japan (via Three Amigos or somebody with contacts that is willing to help) and then getting the watch to somebody good here, like Carregalo or maybe even Adriano (never worked with him but I know he knows his business). Getting the watch back to Japan and then back here besides the (huge!) risk would be the mother of all hassles, and not to say very expensive.

The OS300 is a bit easier, since quite a lot of the parts are the same used on the Poseidon, so only a few parts would give me trouble. But with the MM300 everything would have to come from the country of the rising sun ::) . Still, nowadays, with the internet and how easy it is to get in touch with the whole wide world, it's not something impossible. Maybe takes time and can get a bit expensive, but not impossible at all. I guess what really holds me back on the MM300 is the price :eek: .
You raised valid points, Luciano. I'll try to address all of them...

First, Adriano is a master of his craft. He used to post at the old SCWF, and he's the author of the 6105/ Apocalipse Now thread, now ressurected from the deads and is currently linked on a ongoing post in here.
I've sent in a lot of watches to him. He was the commandant of the major overhaul and rebuild that my 2 Arnies had gone through (pics soon to be posted, here).

He also replaced the shroud from one of my 600m tunas. He is totally comfortable with operating inside the Prospex diver's monocoqued cases. He's definitely my major guy in Brazil whom I rely upon for my jewels. Drop him a PM at relogiosmecanicos.com.br, 'cause he has left his old company and has joined a new one. Get his new contact directly with him.

As for the 3 amigos from Japan sourcing parts from Japan, not likely. :( Unfortunatelly, I had already asked one of them (more than once) in regards of this matters, and he tells me that YSERV (Seiko's servicing arm in Japan) is adamant not to sell spare parts, even to authorized dealers. They ask for the whole watch to be sent in through said authorized seller in order to get it serviced, thus replacing the needed parts.
The only chance of getting spare parts for the MM - which will be gaskets, only, provided you take good care of the watch in the long run - is through our 3 amigos from The Netherlands (Luka-San, Robbie and Sweadefreak). ;) Then yes, you can buy the spares and take the watch to a competent company heer in Brazil - Adriano or Carregalo are your best bet.

Now the part of your post that got me the MOST excited is the interchanging of parts between the OS 300M and the RM2. That I didn't know, and actually I got pretty excited. But please, tell me: how can you be sure the parts are interchangeable? Again, my major concern here is GASKETS, 'cause I want to keep these watches W.R. indeed, in the long run. Then, I'd be almost positive that Orient authorized service center in SP would accept the watch in for service. Do you know if their movements are the same?

Thanks for the info, Luw. O0

Regards,
CHRIS
 

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Im like a few here and im in the fortunate position of owning both.
I feel theres a slightly slant way the posts could go on this topic as when i thought about it my first impression was theres no comparison to even try to put these two against each other as the OS300 will and would win hands down in my opinion.
That said i then pulled both of mine out and stared at both for a while side by side!!!
I was wrong.Yes the OS300 IS AWESOME to say the least but come on lets be honest....Pound for Pound or Dollar for Dollar the Sumo has and is the biggest bargain bang for buck watch Seiko make in my opinion.
It can do everything the OS300 can and then be subtle enough to slip on with a suit and get noticed for its genuine good looks and aesthetic beauty for a Divers watch.I suppose a "Tool watch" It is and isnt really.The OS300 on the other hand is Big,Brash,Bold,and stunningly beautiful (Ive got the Yellow Dial) but maybe a tad too thick when wearing a suit.
They both to me have there own Characteristics that suit them for what they were made for. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Chris, gaskets for the case may not be the same, since what determines the gasket is the case and not the movement, so in this case I can only guess. But movement parts I'm pretty sure and crown gaskets I think (why wouldn't they be?) are interchangeable. Don't forget that at least some parts that go in JDM OS watches are made here! I'm pretty sure a competent watchmaker would not have too much trouble with the O300/OS300.

So Adriano is not with Omega anymore? Interesting.

Neilo, I coudn't agree more, for the price I think the Sumo is the BEST diver of the Seiko line. I can't extrapolate that to non-divers, once the SARBs are a great deal too, but in the realm of diving watches it can go up against any other model from any other brand and I'm pretty sure it will com out on top, or at least in the very top if you factor in price x quality. The O300, on the other hand, though is more expensive, was always portrayed as a tool watch, or at least that was the impression I had about it. But if it wasn't so thick, since the craftsmanship is top notch, it would be a dress diver just as good or maybe even better then the Sumo. Being better then the Sumo really isn't a huge merit, once it's a lot more expensive (it is a merit for the Sumo, of course), but at least to me it's really interesting to see a watch that I thought was "just" a tool watch being compared with true dress divers and giving them a run for their money.
 

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Its OK Luciano...one doesn't have to be better than another.... two flavors of fantastic !!

Be comfortable with the fact that you have two awesome watches that you didn't have to sell a kidney to get. :)
 

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First of all: Good topic, great pics and relevant thoughts ;)

What hit me when owning the Orient 300m was that it actually felt like a SKX007/009 case on steroids :eek: Brushed and shiny finish, but not that well finished. If You take the Sumo, the case finish is just awesome ! On top of that, You have the movement, which - really, let´s face it - is a "no contest": The 6R15 in the Sumo is a great movement for the money with both hacking and handwind, and on top of that, in my experience, You get very good precision right out of the box. The Orient movement is very well made with the most efficient automatic winding system that I have ever come across - it simply does not need the winding mechanism, but it is not as well constructed a movement as the 6R15 - to me. In my experience, the Orient 300m diver is heavy and not as comfortable on the wrist as the Sumo. To be honest, the Orient bracelet - beside the MM diver extension mechanism - is really rubbish: Too thin and too narrow to carry that heavy diver on any wrist, really ... *blush* The Sumo, even though it really ought to have a 22mm size bracelet, wears really well on it´s stock bracelet. And even though, in my opinion, the bracelet is the really weak point in this diver, it does the trick: Comfortable wear, looks good and it is durable and easily sizeable and micro-adjustable.

When speaking of the Orient 300m diver in comparison to the Seiko MM300, in my opinion, there is NO CONTEST, as the MM300 is simply THAT much better built, especially the movement, monocoque case and general case, dial and hand finish is far beyound what the Orient 300 can dish out.

Do not get me wrong - I love all three ... but if I were only to own only one (horrors) of these three great divers, I would not be in doubt for one second before choosing this one:


I still love these two, and they are welcome in my collection any day :)



 

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Discussion Starter #16
nhoJ said:
Its OK Luciano...one doesn't have to be better than another.... two flavors of fantastic !!
John, I don't think one is better then the other, since they have very different prices and up until now i though they were in two different categories of divers. As I said somewhere else, I really can't say witch one I like the most.

Pete, oh come on, bringing the MM300 into this is like bringing a motorcycle to a bike race ;D .
 

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Over Christmas last year Neil loaned me his Orient 300 and i thought the quality and feel was superb and the young guys in my family loved it but............personally i just couldent get over the feeling that the dial was upside down, a couple of times when putting it back on after a shower or what ever i did try to put it on the wrong way !! ???
 

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JoepeteJokla said:
Luciano, a race is a race ;) Besides, I was not the first to mention the MM300 in this thread ... :))
JoePete, I thought you had the orange US market version......did you trade it for the yellow one or you actually have both? ;D
 

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minidriver said:
Now you need a MM300 to complete the trio.
+1 on this :)

i have the mm300 and os300. the mm300 just feels more elegant and subtle. it quietly stands out from the herd. one look and you will be blown away by the fit and finish.

the os00 is a big bold watch as some folks mentioned earlier. i have to size it more snug to my wrist and after wearing for an hour or so, the Orient logo is imprinted on the skin of my wrist!? but once the sizing is ok, the watch commands a presence, it grabs pple's attention and the major talkpoint is the PR gauge and the torch-like lume. the watch feels heavy and pple relates that to "expensive".

between both, i will keep the mm300. in fact, many times i am pondering whether to sell off my os300. it is just too beautiful at times and i always hesitated when it comes to putting her on the FS column.

as for the sumo, i do not own her (yet) and saving up for the blue one. i have seen the blue sumo in flesh and truly a well made piece, bang-for-the-buck as most mentioned. the most subtle and perfect finish is the way the bezel sits a bit into the case. it is thinner than the os300 and mm300 and a very versatile watch in terms of cosmetic looks. my friend owns the black sumo and he has the same 6.5wrist as i do. when i put on his black sumo, it sits well and balanced. if there is one thing i could change is the font on the bezel. not a show stopper but i wish seiko could do better.

if you have the funds (now or later), good to have both :-\ , no kiddin.
i am sure you will not regret.
 
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