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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,

I've been lurking around on the forums on and off for sometime, and rarely post, so please forgive my sudden request for assistance from y'all.. But the need is great, and in time of desperation, I turn to you.. hope you guys don't mind

I am visiting Hong Kong for just 3 days, and on my second day (today) I walked into a shop selling the watch I've been looking for for the longest time... a 6159-7000, profesional 300m Dive watch from 1968!

I was obviously thrilled, and found out that he was selling at about US$ 4700. Even though it seems on the high end of prices (I have not been updated on prices recently), its a rare find and I am really tempted to pull the trigger.

Here are some pictures and I sincerely apologies for the poor pictures, my hands were literally trembling as I took the pictures!

So the questions I have are

1) Does it look like the parts are all original?
2) Does it look like the watch has been modified/polished/damaged in any way?
3) If I were to purchase it and the movement is not as ideal as it should be, would it cost me a bomb to make it all well again?
4) anything I should look out for or ask before purchasing the watch?


I'm in a bit of a dilemma as the watch is priced more than I expected (just a little bit!) SHOULD I even purchase the watch at that price?

I really only have half a day left tomorrow in the city, so I really do appreciate any comments that might come and the time you would take to reply, especially if its in time for me to decide if I should make the purchase.

Thank you!
 

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Craftsman
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From your photographs it looks fine to me and it doesn't look to be modified. As for the polishing it's very difficult to tell from the photo's but you should be able to see for yourself when it's in your hand. They aren't particularly complicated watches and any decent watchsmith should be able to service it for you. Finding some movement parts can take time though.
 

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Apart from the fact like you I love these I have next to no knowledge but to me it looks pretty good and it's running, the only minor downer for me is the case back looks pretty worn, as i say minor but for that kind of money I would want everything right :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hey guys,

Thanks for the feedback!

I did get another comment that the bezel looks really clean though, a bit too clean for the scratches on the rest of the watch, which I think does hold some water.

Also the seller did say that the crystal had been replaced as the previous one was too scratched up, so you're right, that might be an indication that the bezel insert has been replaced.

In 3 minds now!
 

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Looks correct and in great condition. The lack of aging of the lume on the hands and dial is good enough that I'd wonder if it the hands and dial were relumed at some time. Easy way to tell whether the watch has been relumed or not is to get it in the dark and see how brightly the hands and dial glow. Original lume will be faint. New lume will glow brightly.

The other thing to check is whether the crown is original. Looks correct in the photos, but the pics don't provide a good enough view of it to be sure.

Crown should look like this

 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi there,

Cool, thats a good tip for me. Looks like I'm leaning towards getting it, unless any red flags come up. Its just so difficult to find nowadays

Still can't believe the price though. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
in the case of a relumed dial/hands, would/should it affect the price of the watch enough that I should either significantly push the price down?

Or would this be acceptable?
 

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in the case of a relumed dial/hands, would/should it affect the price of the watch enough that I should either significantly push the price down?

Or would this be acceptable?
In general originality is critical. If the watch has not been relumed, it makes it very very good in terms of condition as you can see the effect age typically has on lume in the pics of my watch. Originality plus excellent condition equals justifiable premium price.

If the condition of the original hands and dial is poor enough, reluming improve value, but a relumed watch will always have less value than an equal condition original watch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks! Sadly I don't really have enough in lumes and especially with regards to this watch to be able to make a well informed observation.

From your picture I see that its pretty clear yours is untouched. the one I'm interested in.. not so clear, especially coupled with the Bezel, which is a bit of an indication that work has been done on the watch.

Its a hard decision to make.. thanks for the help
 

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Hey Ray, I forgot to ask, is the crown supposed to be signed?
Crown is unsigned.

The bezel looks correct. A replacement bezel, as long as it is a correct Seiko OEM bezel is not considered to be a negative since bezels tend to get marked up. I'm not aware of non Seiko OEM or different versions of Seiko OEM replacement bezels ever having been made for this watch, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. The bezel needs to be looked a closely to make sure, but based on the pics, the bezel looks correct to me.
 

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I just noticed that although it looks like the bezel is correct, it looks like the "0" pip may have been relumed, just like the hands and the dial. Notice how the pip is filled in on the watch you're looking at, but has a more pearl like shape to it on mine. The other thing is the pip lume patina seems to match the hand and dial lume patina.

Unfortunately reluming is common as it does much to make a watch look much nicer. Of course it goes directly against the maxim of collecting originality is valuable, because "everything is only original once".
 

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Looks to have been re-lumed to me, as an example of original 1968 lume, below is a picture of my 1968 J_D chrono after restoration but with original lume, except for the pip in the bezel and the chrono minute counter hand, both of which show up brighter when 'charged', but were carefully colour matched to match the rest of the lume by Rich when he restored the watch for me earlier this year.
 

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Just looked at the larger versions of the pics you posted on WUS and looked at my watch. I'm 90% sure the hands and dial have been relumed. The pip has also probably been relumed.

The sweep hand has two areas of lume inset into the metal of the hand. On the larger pics it is clear that the lume doesn't sit perfectly within the areas carved out for lume and that it covers the metal of the hand in this area. This is not the case for the lume on the sweep hand of my watch. The matching color of the sweep hand, dial indices and bezel pip make me think these were all relumed at the same time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well I guess if the bezel insert has been replaced, most likely it would be new lume.. and I guess the previous owner would then also relume the hands and hour markers, otherwise they would look out of place

I think we all have the same thoughts, its such a nice (And rare) watch, but its so steep for what seems to be work done on it. Like marrying a hot wife suspecting there has been some plastic surgery done.. then finding out that the kids look like.... errm...

Just that its one of my true grails, and its so difficult to find. Would be my first time splurging so much on a watch without much knowledge about it.

Well going to head out in a few hours to bargain and perhaps purchase it.. wish me luck!

Thanks for all the comments guys!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hey guys,

Just to update, I ended up not purchasing the watch from what in the end was a rather dodgy dealer.

Firstly he was extremely reluctant to open up the case, and would only agree if I paid first. When I mentioned that the price was dependent on the condition of the movement would affect the price, he refused to drop the price. His reason for not dropping the price was - its a hard to find watch, the price is a take it or leave it.

In the end we got into a slightly heated discussion on the state of service in Hong Kong and I just walked off. I contemplated going back to talk more as it was a difficult watch to find, but I thought - buy the seller more than the watch.. so.. there goes my baby... :(
 

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Hey guys,

Just to update, I ended up not purchasing the watch from what in the end was a rather dodgy dealer.

Firstly he was extremely reluctant to open up the case, and would only agree if I paid first. When I mentioned that the price was dependent on the condition of the movement would affect the price, he refused to drop the price. His reason for not dropping the price was - its a hard to find watch, the price is a take it or leave it.

In the end we got into a slightly heated discussion on the state of service in Hong Kong and I just walked off. I contemplated going back to talk more as it was a difficult watch to find, but I thought - buy the seller more than the watch.. so.. there goes my baby... :(
It sounds to me as though you did the right thing, if I was paying that amount I would at the very least want good service :)
 

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