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Discussion Starter #1
Howdy Seikoziens, from my auto announcements from our favorite auction site has arisen a silver Resist 6139 with an aftermarket dial, bezel, and crown (as best I can tell) and a deliberately obscured date code in the one caseback photo. It's going for exactly $1000. The seller does not acknowledge these issues.

Peace - Tod
 

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Well my friend
Greed has now made people do anything to make a few bucks
I have loved the idea of a silver dial on a presidential band for years
But always shied away due to so many fakes being pumped into the market for mega money
Sadly with so many eyes now on Seiko I see this only being the beginning of this
1000 is a hard less for someone to learn
Thank u for the heads up
God Bless,John

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Howdy Seikoziens, from my auto announcements from our favorite auction site has arisen a silver Resist 6139 with an aftermarket dial, bezel, and crown (as best I can tell) and a deliberately obscured date code in the one caseback photo. It's going for exactly $1000. The seller does not acknowledge these issues.

Peace - Tod
Don't worry Tod it is the norm these days :(
 

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I don’t understand dropping serious wedge on a watch before researching to know what’s real and what’s not? Aftermarket in itself isn’t a crime but selling it as original certainly is.
 

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Yup, this one sets new standards for chutzpah and/or outright thievery. At least one hand isn’t original, based on the color mismatch. The case lines are soft enough that I’d bet it has seen at least one hard polishing. And the rotor looks like it might’ve seen some water. But other than that — and the fake dial, hands, insert, and crown — it’s a great deal. Really.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I did get a response from the seller on the date code.


I then told him that the case back and dial didn’t match and that it isn’t an original Seiko dial. His response was “I didn’t think it was”.


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I offered 50 bucks but was declined. I was originally thinking $100, but I’m not sure there’s $100 worth of usable parts there.
 

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Here's another GEM
293448743138
 

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FYI There's actually two separate listings for this fake silver Pogue with the same watch just different angles.

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These type of posts are becoming more common as more AM and fakes are showing up. Maybe we should have a dedicated section for these, or do we already have one? What say you Admin?
 

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The SCWF should start a Seiko Certification program. Sellers or owners submit photos and watch details and a carefully chosen SCWF committee would then evaluate and then make a certification of authenticity if all original. Sellers and Owners then can use the SCWF certification for selling the watch or just peace of mind. SCWF certified Seikos would develop a reputation in the marketplace and become cherished watches in collections. The SCWF could charge a healthy Certification fee for this service and of course The Commander should be entitled to 50% of all the procceds.
 

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The SCWF should start a Seiko Certification program. Sellers or owners submit photos and watch details and a carefully chosen SCWF committee would then evaluate and then make a certification of authenticity if all original. Sellers and Owners then can use the SCWF certification for selling the watch or just peace of mind. SCWF certified Seikos would develop a reputation and command a higher price in the marketplace and become cherished watches in collections. The SCWF could charge a healthy Certification fee for this service and of course the Commander would be entitled to 50% of all the procceds.
Not a bad idea, but this could run into liability issues if a mistake is made. These fakes are getting better and better and harder to spot.
 

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The SCWF should start a Seiko Certification program. Sellers or owners submit photos and watch details and a carefully chosen SCWF committee would then evaluate and then make a certification of authenticity if all original. Sellers then can use the SCWF certification for selling the watch or just peace of mind. The SCWF could charge a healthy Certification fee and of course the Commander would be entitled to 50% of all the procceds.
That's easier said than done. Fake dials are usually easy to spot by many of us on this forum. Some are getting scarily close though. Sometimes I want to see the reverse of the dial too. I have a lot of Pogues! And I study them closely. I am very wary now of 'R' dials, especially Yellow and Silver, if they seem too good to be true, they usually are. There was a Silver 'R' dial Pogue that sold about a year ago for a 'record' price' that was featured on this forum. It had a beautiful dial, but I wouldn't have bought it without inspecting it closely myself, even though many on here vouched for it being genuine I still have my doubts.

But I don't care what anybody says, aftermarket bezels, hands and some other items can be very difficult to identify. Then what about crystals, crowns, pushers, etc... You would certainly need the watch in your hands and take many photo's for your records before putting your name to an authenticity statement. You could leave yourself open for legal issues if you were ever proved wrong.
 

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It sounds like everyone here is in universal agreement that the Yellow Pogue that took 2 years to complete is not All Original "based on our best judgement". As individual members we make judgements "all the time" about a watch and our member name is attached to any statement we make. I believe the members here make very honest and incredibly accurate assessments based on what is available (often only using bad and blurry photos). Many members here are Very Good, not perfect all the time - but who is ever perfect all the time?
 

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As Jim said a certificate of authenticity from the SCWF could become a nightmare imo it would be best to have one from a watch maker who has had it apart but even then whats to say parts havent been swapped out two or three sales down the line.
 

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It sounds like everyone here is in universal agreement that the Yellow Pogue that took 2 years to complete is not All Original "based on our best judgement". As individual members we make judgements "all the time" about a watch and our member name is attached to any statement we make. I believe the members here make very honest and incredibly accurate assessments based on what is available (often only using bad and blurry photos). Many members here are Very Good, not perfect all the time - but who is ever perfect all the time?
Mrs B could be a contender :)
 

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Going to be a lot of chancers with the silver ones, see the last silver on TVS Instagram auction went for $3350aud And it was head only (well, aftermarket bracelet!) and it was a fairly well worn example too.
 

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I don’t understand dropping serious wedge on a watch before researching to know what’s real and what’s not? Aftermarket in itself isn’t a crime but selling it as original certainly is.
I totally agree. You know, I think it's possible many people justify the spending of this kind of money for a "semi legit" vintage classic Seiko "Pogue" because it's better than an all out counterfeit. The whole issue of whether the buyer thinks it is 100% authentic should be a major factor in the decision making process of whether to buy this particular item, especially at this price point. Without being told, how many prospective buyers would really know it's an original Seiko case and perhaps movement with a whole list of after market copied goodies installed to make it look the part ? Many auction sites are unfortunately awash with these bastardized watches with buyers either being told they are authentic or, the truth about it's authenticity is simply left out or left to the buyers level of knowledge! Here in lies the rub.The seller should know what he is selling, authentic vs cobbled together after market of the real thing. The buyer knows what he or she wants BUT do they know what they are getting ? Do they care ? BUYER BEWARE ! With counterfeit sales rising and buyers making that purchase decision, they should be getting a 100% authentic 6139-6002 silver "Pogue" for that $1000. It is truly sad that the counterfeit market is blurring the lines in the minds of some buyers. For $1000 a watch that "looks the part may good enough for some". A watch that is "mostly" authentic is even better for that same $1000. There are many people who are OK with this. I call it "Counterfeit Conditioned". I also call it, BUYER BEWARE ! Know your seller, know your item, KNOW what you are laying your $$$ down for. It's up to the buyer to be educated enough to ask the necessary questions to be assured he or she is getting what they expect. The buyer can't always rely on getting their money back if they find out later it was an uninformed decision. Atleast not without a battle.
 
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