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Beautiful watch.

Once again you seem impressed by the price achieved, whereas to me it seems to be pretty predictable. An extremely nice original ‘Pogue’ in excellent working order costs well over $1000 US today. This is a superior example - absolutely at the top of the range in terms of condition. Two thousand bucks , equating probably to a premium of 50% above market, seems about right for one that is, pretty much, a perfect example.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Beautiful watch.

Once again you seem impressed by the price achieved, whereas to me it seems to be pretty predictable. An extremely nice original ‘Pogue’ in excellent working order costs well over $1000 US today. This is a superior example - absolutely at the top of the range in terms of condition. Two thousand bucks , equating probably to a premium of 50% above market, seems about right for one that is, pretty much, a perfect example.
I am now rather impressed, by the final $3700AUD ($2570USD) sell price achieved.
Aren't you??

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that
Beautiful watch.

Once again you seem impressed by the price achieved, whereas to me it seems to be pretty predictable. An extremely nice original ‘Pogue’ in excellent working order costs well over $1000 US today. This is a superior example - absolutely at the top of the range in terms of condition. Two thousand bucks , equating probably to a premium of 50% above market, seems about right for one that is, pretty much, a perfect example.
if you actually went to the IG to view close ups of the watch in question, there is some wear around the top portion of the sub dial and really should not have garnered that price. I think your $1,000US price floor is a bit on the optimistic side UNLESS the watch has had a recent and "proper" servicing.

<* shark >>><
 

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I think there are a few factors at work here:

1) pricing for some vintage references — like Pogues — can be very condition-sensitive, and this is an excellent (though not perfect) example;
2) there’s a subset of buyers out there who will pay a significant premium to buy from an “expert;” and
3) not everyone studies the photos as carefully as Larry, or is as notoriously picky (and I mean that as a compliment ;-).

Taken together, I think that may explain how a watch like this sells for somewhat more than we might expect or be willing to pay for it.
 

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I think there are a few factors at work here:

1) pricing for some vintage references — like Pogues — can be very condition-sensitive, and this is an excellent (though not perfect) example;
2) there’s a subset of buyers out there who will pay a significant premium to buy from an “expert;” and
3) not everyone studies the photos as carefully as Larry, or is as notoriously picky (and I mean that as a compliment ;-).

Taken together, I think that may explain how a watch like this sells for somewhat more than we might expect or be willing to pay for it.
Bang on assessment brother 👌
 

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It’s a lovely watch. I didn’t see the auction, was it sold be a known person. If VTA was selling it and I wanted a almost NOS that had been serviced by Adrian then I can see how someone might go this high, even for a late -6002 with all of the junk for sale in the OFASverse. If this isn’t the case then I don’t know. Regardless would I pay this much, no, not for this model.


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First Lady
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Winner paid too much, no matter who is selling it. I bought mine for $400.00. Yes it had some small patina spots and a faded bezel, but after sourcing a much better condition oem bezel, and having it thoroughly cleaned and serviced, I spent a total of under $1,000.00. The watch in question should have sold for around $1,500.00 or less, IMO.




Kat
 

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Wow that’s quite a price. Box may be “period correct” but looks like there is no paperwork that comes with it.

You can easily buy nice no texts 600x on OFAS all the time for less than $1000. Throw in a box for $50-100. That’s quite a profit.
 

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We know in the coin collecting world that prices take a step climb once they reach the un-circulated grades.

I know its not really possible due to many factors, but wouldn't it be cool if there was such a system in the watch world? Send the watch away to be graded and registered in a data base.

Anyway, I am interested in what the knowledgeable members here consider about the hierarchy of the different versions of the 6139-600*'s

(consider equal condition)
1. Sunrise
2 True Pogue?
3. JDM Speedtimer proof?
4. Proof/Proof silver dial
5. Proof/proof yellow
6. Proof/proof blue
7. no text silver

Am I close?

Would a no text yellow like in the op be considered more desirable than a blue Proof/proof in the same condition?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
that

if you actually went to the IG to view close ups of the watch in question, there is some wear around the top portion of the sub dial and really should not have garnered that price. I think your $1,000US price floor is a bit on the optimistic side UNLESS the watch has had a recent and "proper" servicing.

>QUOTE]Yeah there's some corrosion around the top half of the subdial. Not mentioned in the description, but very clear in the photos.
No service history stated.
It's a very strong price achieved for a very nice, but not mint, example


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We know in the coin collecting world that prices take a step climb once they reach the un-circulated grades.

I know its not really possible due to many factors, but wouldn't it be cool if there was such a system in the watch world? Send the watch away to be graded and registered in a data base.

Anyway, I am interested in what the knowledgeable members here consider about the hierarchy of the different versions of the 6139-600*'s

(consider equal condition)
1. Sunrise
2 True Pogue?
3. JDM Speedtimer proof?
4. Proof/Proof silver dial
5. Proof/proof yellow
6. Proof/proof blue
7. no text silver

Am I close?

Would a no text yellow like in the op be considered more desirable than a blue Proof/proof in the same condition?
the answer to your question on the bottom: not to me.

<* shark >>><
 

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We know in the coin collecting world that prices take a step climb once they reach the un-circulated grades.

I know its not really possible due to many factors, but wouldn't it be cool if there was such a system in the watch world? Send the watch away to be graded and registered in a data base.

Anyway, I am interested in what the knowledgeable members here consider about the hierarchy of the different versions of the 6139-600*'s

(consider equal condition)
1. Sunrise
2 True Pogue?
3. JDM Speedtimer proof?
4. Proof/Proof silver dial
5. Proof/proof yellow
6. Proof/proof blue
7. no text silver

Am I close?

Would a no text yellow like in the op be considered more desirable than a blue Proof/proof in the same condition?
IMO, silver proof and Sunrise are the most scarce and valuable; we could probably argue about relative scarcity and value, but I'd imagine they're at the top of anyone's list in one order or the other.

I don't think the True Pogue is particularly scarce, but they do command idiotic prices, especially September 1971 examples. IMO the next on the list after the silver proof and Sunrise would be the JDM 6139-6000 with a yellow dial. These dials were very fragile and finding a good one is diffcult. The "rest of world" yellow 6139-6000 is somewhat easier to find, but still a bit of a challenge. There's a legitimate Aussie variant of the yellow 6139-6000 that's also somewhat uncommon.

No text silver is probably less common than "resist" silver, except for the silver dial 6139-6001, which you won't see very often. Even less frequently seen in the wild is the blue dial 6139-6007. And, of course, the "transitional" 6139-6001s -- which can have "proof" dials and "resist" casebacks, or vice versa -- were only made for a short time in 1970 and don't crop up very often, especially with yellow dials. A couple are awaiting restoration, but I think I have at least one example of every 6139-600x with a blue dial. The hardest to find were the 6139-6007 and the proof/proof and proof/resist variants of the 6139-6001. I'd like to find a decent transitional yellow dial 6139-6001, but I'm not holding my breath.

See what I'm getting at here? It's not always as simple as dial color and proof/resist/no text. And, as in numismatism, scarcity doesn't always correspond with market price.

As for your original question, the no text yellow 6139-6002 might sell for more money, but I wouldn't consider it more desirable.
 

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IMO, silver proof and Sunrise are the most scarce and valuable; we could probably argue about relative scarcity and value, but I'd imagine they're at the top of anyone's list in one order or the other.

I don't think the True Pogue is particularly scarce, but they do command idiotic prices, especially September 1971 examples. IMO the next on the list after the silver proof and Sunrise would be the JDM 6139-6000 with a yellow dial. These dials were very fragile and finding a good one is diffcult. The "rest of world" yellow 6139-6000 is somewhat easier to find, but still a bit of a challenge. There's a legitimate Aussie variant of the yellow 6139-6000 that's also somewhat uncommon.

No text silver is probably less common than "resist" silver, except for the silver dial 6139-6001, which you won't see very often. Even less frequently seen in the wild is the blue dial 6139-6007. And, of course, the "transitional" 6139-6001s -- which can have "proof" dials and "resist" casebacks, or vice versa -- were only made for a short time in 1970 and don't crop up very often, especially with yellow dials. A couple are awaiting restoration, but I think I have at least one example of every 6139-600x with a blue dial. The hardest to find were the 6139-6007 and the proof/proof and proof/resist variants of the 6139-6001. I'd like to find a decent transitional yellow dial 6139-6001, but I'm not holding my breath.

See what I'm getting at here? It's not always as simple as dial color and proof/resist/no text. And, as in numismatism, scarcity doesn't always correspond with market price.

As for your original question, the no text yellow 6139-6002 might sell for more money, but I wouldn't consider it more desirable.
Thank you for such an informative reply. (and sorry if I hijacked this thread)
It's for these reasons that I am finding such a love for vintage Seiko collecting. So much to learn, and so many varients in each model.
 

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Winner paid too much, no matter who is selling it. I bought mine for $400.00. Yes it had some small patina spots and a faded bezel, but after sourcing a much better condition oem bezel, and having it thoroughly cleaned and serviced, I spent a total of under $1,000.00. The watch in question should have sold for around $1,500.00 or less, IMO.

Kat
This is exactly what I was getting at ... a WIS who has expert knowledge and buys a restoration candidate will always come out ahead of the average punter who pays a dealer to find the watch and do the restoration. I routinely see dealers getting 1.5x to 2x of what I think it would cost me to take a restorable piece, source the correct parts, and have it restored. And I don't think that's unreasonable, given the work involved in tracking down good parts, maintaining inventory, advertising the product, etc.

As for your watch, I think you're comparing apples and oranges -- because for many collectors, condition is everything, especially where the dial is concerned. The dial on that OP watch isn't perfect, but it's pretty close. At that level of condition, sellers can ask much higher prices if they have access to the kinds of collectors who will pay a premium for a really good example. Like you, I wouldn't pay $2,500 for that watch ... but like you, I'm a WIS who would rather hunt down a good restoration candidate, source the relevant bits, and send the whole mess to a specialist/magician. For many collectors, that's torture; for some of us, it's fun.

I paid about $350 for the dial on this watch and considered it a bargain; I got a good deal on the original donor watch, probably spent about $1,300 all in (IIRC those are NOS hands and pushers) and -- given the current True Pogue insanity -- would expect a dealer to ask twice that much. With a lesser dial, the value of this one would be substantially less.

Watch Analog watch Measuring instrument Font Watch accessory
 

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Come on, discussion about prices is really redundant. For what reason does anyone think he is the one, that can give the correct „value“ of a watch?! It is exactly worth what someone is willing to pay for it. It’s an individual, subjective decision, especially with vintage watches. I think I am in the „ to pay more“ camp for getting a nice, original one. Especially one that doesn’t need to be relumed. Reluming for example, is a dealbreaker for me. Or if outer edge of the subdial has gotten bad like yours Kate. So again, each to his own. I rather appreciate vintage Seikos being seen more valuable to the community than to cry about fetching them high prices….
 

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Since price is quite subjective, and as mentioned @byscott above scarcity does not always translate into market price, what’s the definite top 5 in terms of rarity in terms of production volume?

Here is my take, purely on personal observation basis
1. 6002 Sunrise
2. 6000 Silver Proof
3. 6007 Blue Resist
4. 6000 Yellow Aussie
5. 6000 Yellow Speedtimer
 

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First Lady
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This is exactly what I was getting at ... a WIS who has expert knowledge and buys a restoration candidate will always come out ahead of the average punter who pays a dealer to find the watch and do the restoration. I routinely see dealers getting 1.5x to 2x of what I think it would cost me to take a restorable piece, source the correct parts, and have it restored. And I don't think that's unreasonable, given the work involved in tracking down good parts, maintaining inventory, advertising the product, etc.

As for your watch, I think you're comparing apples and oranges -- because for many collectors, condition is everything, especially where the dial is concerned. The dial on that OP watch isn't perfect, but it's pretty close. At that level of condition, sellers can ask much higher prices if they have access to the kinds of collectors who will pay a premium for a really good example. Like you, I wouldn't pay $2,500 for that watch ... but like you, I'm a WIS who would rather hunt down a good restoration candidate, source the relevant bits, and send the whole mess to a specialist/magician. For many collectors, that's torture; for some of us, it's fun.

I paid about $350 for the dial on this watch and considered it a bargain; I got a good deal on the original donor watch, probably spent about $1,300 all in (IIRC those are NOS hands and pushers) and -- given the current True Pogue insanity -- would expect a dealer to ask twice that much. With a lesser dial, the value of this one would be substantially less.

View attachment 498621
What a beauty!


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First Lady
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Come on, discussion about prices is really redundant. For what reason does anyone think he is the one, that can give the correct „value“ of a watch?! It is exactly worth what someone is willing to pay for it. It’s an individual, subjective decision, especially with vintage watches. I think I am in the „ to pay more“ camp for getting a nice, original one. Especially one that doesn’t need to be relumed. Reluming for example, is a dealbreaker for me. Or if outer edge of the subdial has gotten bad like yours Kate. So again, each to his own. I rather appreciate vintage Seikos being seen more valuable to the community than to cry about fetching them high prices….
I like my watch’s Imperfections……

Kat


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