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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone. This is my first post here though I have been reading the posts of other here for some time now

I am looking for some input from my fellow vintage Seiko collectors on two particular Seiko watches I own. The first is a 6217-8001 and the second watch is 6105-8000. I am at an impasse as to making up my mind about restoring these two watches or leaving them as they are both unmolested original watches. Both watches run and keep time within acceptable allowances. Also appearance wise both watches are in decent condition with minor scratches on the glass and small nicks and marks on the case. I would love to hear some opinions from other here as to what you would do if the watches were yours. Typically I restore about 90% of the Seiko watches I purchase because I like them to look clean but because these two watches are significant pieces of Seiko history maybe they should be left alone. I welcome any and all opinions on my dilemma.

Thanks
Michael
 

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Hi Michael, welcome! Others will chime in I'm sure, and most will say to keep them as original as possible. (pictures please :) )
Sometimes the lume turnes black, (black mould/crud) that I would like to correct if it was my watch.

I forgot, new gaskets are also a good idea. Some small scratches I wouldn't mind personally on the crystals, when they are very worn, high quality replacements are a good idea i think.

And you might want to ask a mod to move this post out of the review section, less "traffic" here.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Dutchsiberia. You pretty much nailed the one thing that really bothers me about my 6105-8000. The lume on the dial has turned colors and looks like moldy tile grout.
The dial on the 6217-8001 has the same problem but not quite as bad. I have to make a couple more post before it will allow me to post pictures of them both. I will post them up as soon as I can.

I do like the idea of it being all original but I was also thinking if I buy an aftermarket new dial and a new crystal but save the old parts the watch could always be returned to its original condition. I actually have an extra complete case for the 6105-8000 that I could polish up and put a new crystal in and just swap the movement into it and save the original parts too. I even have NOS crowns 65W01NS for the 6217 and a 65W02NS crown for the 6105.

Michael
 

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Hi and welcome, my 2 pence :)

IMO there is a major difference between wabbie/patina and black rotted old lume gunge on dials and hands, if a nicely aged patina then i would leave as is but if they have turned to rot then i would have them professionally relumed by one of the pro's, James, Jack etc.

Crystals either polish or first choice change, especially if you have a OEM crystal available.

Cases (these two models) i personally would leave as is unless they were in a terrible state but if just gentle wear then i would leave original.

Obviously change all gaskets.

Personally i wouldent dream of fitting after market dials and saving the originals for "later".

Have fun and at the end of the day do what you feel is best, your watches :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you for the input. I do have 2 OEM Seiko brand crystals 320W10GN in my stash of parts that fit the 6105-8000 watch. The original one only has very light scratches on it. The dial is the only part that I think absolutely must be clean and have the lume redone. The rest of the watch only has light wear.

I have not really evaluated the 6217-8001 to deeply but it does have the same moldy look to the lume on the dial also. If one had no choice but to replace the dial which seller can anyone here recommend. I see mountapo-merchant has a dial listed on eBay that looks to be quite nice though I can not speak to its accuracy. I have bought other items from them before when doing mods on 7002 and 7S26 divers and everything was of a good quality. I will post up pictures of both watches tomorrow.

Michael
 

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I agree with everyone else - leave it as original as possible. Don't polish cases and don't replace dials/hands unless you do it with OEM parts. I have no problem with restored/relumed dials and hands - if a watch is treated properly and is worn and used, this is bound to happen (crud build-up). A little patina is a good thing, in my opinion. Cleaning it up and reluming it makes it the perfect candidate to begin the cycle of wear and tear again - get out there and enjoy those beauties.

Oh, and welcome, too!


Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the feedback guy I really appreciate it. I have restored several Seiko's in the past couple of years but none that have a high value or are as rare as these two. That is why I am seeking as much input as possible. The dial on the 6105-8001 is not bad over all just the lume has turned black on some of the markers.

I have never done lume job before but I do have 30 years of experience of scale model building. Which means I am very good at working on small details and not destroying them. One big question I do have though is when you do lume an old dial isit necessary to remove the old discolored lume first or can the fresh lume be applied right over the old discolored lume? I plan on practicing on some of the spare dials I have first before trying it on the original 6105 dial. I am going to look on this site to see if there might be any tutorials on doing lume.

Michael
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Dig the old lume out first.
Thanks for the input. Will do! Going to find some old damaged low value dials to sacrifice on later tonight. Plus I am going to post some good pictures up after I have a good dinner so keep tuned!:)

Michael
 

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I agree with everyone else - leave it as original as possible. Don't polish cases and don't replace dials/hands unless you do it with OEM parts. I have no problem with restored/relumed dials and hands - if a watch is treated properly and is worn and used, this is bound to happen (crud build-up). A little patina is a good thing, in my opinion. Cleaning it up and reluming it makes it the perfect candidate to begin the cycle of wear and tear again - get out there and enjoy those beauties.

Oh, and welcome, too!


Dan
Well said!


Definately take the old lume out first - especailly if it is discoloured, I would imageing that if you did not then the mould from the old lume would just work through the new lume.

The only tip / point I would give when reluming these (and 6105 dials) is to be damned careful, especailly when you are working close to the border of the lume well. The borders have a silver paint on them, it chips off very easily. If you dig out the lume 'agianst' the border and sort of prise it up or twist it out you are sure to pull that paint off (and you might even cry a little bit!).

I use a sharpened small screwdriver and carefully scrap away. I often start by using the screwdriver to slightly drill down in the middle of the lume to then give a starting point.

Wishing you very best of luck with your resoration.

Can you post some pictures yet?? :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ok finally some pictures! First here are the pictures of the 6217. I'm not sure if this dial is can be saved.






 

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Discussion Starter #15
Regarding tutorials, we have a member here that does very meticulous work on his blog page. MartinCRC is his "forum name" here and here is the link to his relume job of a 6105:

http://adventuresinamateurwatchfett...4/09/04/reluming-a-seiko-6105-dial-and-hands/

His work is very inspiring! Be careful or he'll have you hooked!!

Dan
I dug out a 6105 dial that I had removed from an old diver that I modded and practiced picking away at the old lume first with a round wooden toothpick chucked up in a pin vise so if I slipped I would not scratch the plating. once I got deeper I use a dental tool with a slight bend at the end that comes to a point to dig in the corners and get them all clean out good. I have to say I think I did pretty good. No damage to the chrome around the edge but I did slip once and put a small scratch in the paint on the dial! Your right it is addicting. I have always enjoyed repairing things if possible instead of replacing them. I'm not sure if the 6217 dial can be saved but I am 100% confident I can redo the lume on the 6105 dial now.

Michael
 

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I dug out a 6105 dial that I had removed from an old diver that I modded and practiced picking away at the old lume first with a round wooden toothpick chucked up in a pin vise so if I slipped I would not scratch the plating. once I got deeper I use a dental tool with a slight bend at the end that comes to a point to dig in the corners and get them all clean out good. I have to say I think I did pretty good. No damage to the chrome around the edge but I did slip once and put a small scratch in the paint on the dial! Your right it is addicting. I have always enjoyed repairing things if possible instead of replacing them. I'm not sure if the 6217 dial can be saved but I am 100% confident I can redo the lume on the 6105 dial now.

Michael
I'm no relumer for sure but I have dabbled and IMO the 6105 is perhaps the easiest dial to relume because the hour markers are recessed, I use a very fine needle in a pin vice so that i can clear 100% the old lume out of the corners etc.

When reluming i do three layers of lume letting each layer set (a couple of days) as it does tend to sink if you try to fill it first time (well mine does :) ) plus imo i think you get a better Lume and better job.

Color is a different matter, i tend to end up with the color that i finish with, i havenet really done any mixing and trying different colors i leave that to the pro's :)

 

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Discussion Starter #18
I'm no relumer for sure but I have dabbled and IMO the 6105 is perhaps the easiest dial to relume because the hour markers are recessed, I use a very fine needle in a pin vice so that i can clear 100% the old lume out of the corners etc.

When reluming i do three layers of lume letting each layer set (a couple of days) as it does tend to sink if you try to fill it first time (well mine does :) ) plus imo i think you get a better Lume and better job.

Color is a different matter, i tend to end up with the color that i finish with, i havenet really done any mixing and trying different colors i leave that to the pro's :)

That lume came out great. Sharp crisp lines and nice and bright. Doing it in thin layers seems like a smart idea. It allows the product to fully dry all the way through decreasing the chance for shrinkage or cracking. The 6105 dial was pretty easy. The deepness of the bezel really helps guide your tool of choice. The pin vice worked like a charm for me too. I went with the toothpick mainly because I did not know how hard it would be and I figured if I slipped with it the toothpick would do less damage. So another question from a noob doing lume. What is your favorite product to use and where did you buy it?

Michael
 

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Discussion Starter #19
2 of my very favorites... Looking forward to the "after" pictures...:)
Thanks! I love them too! Like I told my buddy. These two Seiko are interesting for so many reasons. First these were the first diver type watches available besides the ultra high end Rolex stuff. They are a part of Seiko history and thirdly they are also a part of American history as so many of these watches were worn by US troops during the Vietnam War.

Michael
 
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