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Let's talk about the history of Silver 6139-600x

26955 Views 166 Replies 33 Participants Last post by  ewand, 
ewand
2
Whether you call the model a "Silver Pogue" or if you insist on only referring to yellow 6139-6005s as "Pogues", the silver-dial 6139-600x variant is both rare and increasingly popular.

I'd like to try and gather what we collectively know, in one place if possible - so please let us know about Silver Pogues you have ...

What I know about Silver Pogues
  • They were available from 1969 - I have had 3 PROOFs in my hand, 2 from July and 1 from October. All were 6139-6000, with WATER 70M PROOF on the dial and WATERPROOF casebacks. The PROOF dial is always a 6030T dial code; 6030R PROOFs are ebay fakes.
  • There are 6139-6001 watches with Silver 6030T dials.
    • Q: has anyone ever seen a 6139-6001 with 6030R dial and confirmed the dial is real? In any colour?
  • There are 6139-6002 models with WATER 70m RESIST dials in both 6030T and 6030R variants. There are no -6005 or -6009 watches with a silver dial.
  • There are 1972 onward 6030T and 6030R dial variants with no text at 9 o'clock
  • All Silver dial 6139-600x have a black/gray chapter ring
  • No Seiko catalog has ever been proven to show a silver dial watch
    • Q: The monochrome Universal Suppliers catalog (here) that's used as proof of the "Aussie Pogue" existing, has one image which most people assume is a yellow dial watch...
      448208


      ... but the key at the start of the catalog does say ...
      448209


      ... so it is always possible that the above image is not yellow, but "grey".
My theory
There's nothing worse than an armchair expert who bases their opinion on a hunch with nothing to back it up.
That said, I have some theories about Silver 6139s that I'd like to test - if you think this (or any of the above assertions) is wrong, and can point to evidence to that effect, please speak up. Maybe we'll all learn something.

  • There were no JDM silver dial 6139-600x - ie no 5 Sports Speedtimers.
    • Q: did they even sell the silver 6139-600x in Japan? I somehow doubt it as there were so many other JDM only variants, why would they need to?
  • The Silver 6139-600x were only sold in what we could say is Asia-Pacific - perhaps centering around Australia and Hong Kong - not Europe or North America
  • Most will have been shipped with Stelux President bracelet
    • Perhaps the chiclet bracelet was an option; there are certainly some which purport to be one-owner watches with chiclet bracelet
    • Is there any evidence that a silver-dial watch came on an H-link bracelet?
    • I have had 2x 70M PROOF watches which came to me in barn-find condition on straight-end diamondback bracelets (like this)... not a great fit but it seems like a coincidence...
  • The Day wheel on Silver watches is always either Chinese or Roman (I. II, III etc)
    • All silver 6139-6000 PROOFs I've seen are Chinese... I'd be inclined to think that it was only sold in Hong Kong, and all of them have Chinese wheels, then they added Roman as an alternative when the 6001/2 came out and was more widely distributed
    • As a reminder - the Chinese day wheel has
      • 日 - Sunday
      • 一 - Monday
      • 二 - Tuesday
      • 三 - Wednesday
      • 四 - Thursday
      • 五 - Friday
      • 六 - Saturday
    • Some owners of Silver dial watches report Kanji day wheels - is it possible they're getting Kanji and Chinese mixed up?
    • I know of one Silver with an Italian day wheel (which I think is pretty unusual in itself), but wonder if it and any other languages are outliers (maybe a previous owner got the day wheel swapped during a service)
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Jim W
Hmm.. That dial is not right. It looks like it could be a plain dial that has had Water 70m Proof added.
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alexblex
That's exactly what I thought, Jim
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ewand
4
Yeah, good spot - that looks dicey to me... another one from Instagram a long time back:

448829


Here are the 2 I had, pre-relume:
448830


The lettering looks different too.

Looking elsewhere, I see another old post showing:
448831


Block under 60 on the bezel too. He hasn't posted any photos of the PROOF Silver for 4+ years so I wonder if he's moved it on.
And that dial code looks like 6040 to me...
448832
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CombatID
This is all brilliant info, thanks folks. And on a plus note my Resist silver dial watch has made it out of Venezuela and has now left Panama. When it gets here I’ll uncase it and take some decent pictures.


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B
All, this is again a little tangential but close enough to raise here: did anyone see/go after the brown dial proof 6139-6010 that sold on eBay recently? Link here. I have been interested in this model for a long time and was never quite sure of the brown dial's authenticity, but the photos on this listing were really good and everything on it looks 100% original to me. Doing some digging, every legit brown dial I could find (i.e., not obviously cobbled together from parts) was 1) proof, 2) chinese day wheel, and 3) when coming with an original bracelet, on a stelux. I emailed Tom (SeikoPsycho) and he confirmed he had serviced one of these a while back that had a Chinese day wheel and came on a chiclet Stelux. The person he serviced it for sold his, including the chiclet, for under $500 US a few years ago (sigh), and I went after that eBay one pretty hard, but not hard enough.

So what I'm thinking probably goes without saying, but maybe the Brown dial 6139-6010 is to the export 6139-601X series (otherwise blue and black) what the Silver dial 6139-600X is to the export 6139-600X series? I.e., made in a limited batch, all going bracelet-less to Thong Sia in Hong Kong, with Stelux bracelets added on? The major difference being that for the silver proof Pogues, the "test run" sold well and they decided to continue production of exports through the resist and blank-dialed years? But the brown proof -6010s were nixed once that initial run was gone?

I know this is all speculation, but it seems pretty likely to me from what I've seen. Any thoughts?
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alexblex
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Thats a interesting speculation Brian. In fact the brown does not pop up often. The few I have seen, including mine, all have had the Chinese daywheel. My brown 6010 says hello.


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alexblex said:
Thats a interesting speculation Brian. In fact the brown does not pop up often. The few I have seen, including mine, all have had the Chinese daywheel. My brown 6010 says hello.
Click to expand...
Thanks Alex, and interesting! Question, do you recall whether you put that bracelet on the watch or if it came to you on it? Obviously that's the right bracelet for a normal 6139-600X export, but in line with my speculation I wonder if it was added on later rather than at purchase.
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SennieG
Very interesting, I have never seen a brown dialled 6139, but then again I haven't been collecting 6139s for that long.
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alexblex
bbilford83 said:
Thanks Alex, and interesting! Question, do you recall whether you put that bracelet on the watch or if it came to you on it? Obviously that's the right bracelet for a normal 6139-600X export, but in line with my speculation I wonder if it was added on later rather than at purchase.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately the watch came to me without bracelet, on leather. The chiclet for this 6010 is still on my wishlist...

But returning to the silver theme, this thread was started, here a pic from my silver team.


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B
alexblex said:
Unfortunately the watch came to me without bracelet, on leather. The chiclet for this 6010 is still on my wishlist...
Click to expand...
Thanks Alex. Unfortunate to come without a bracelet, but good news for the theory that they were sold like the proof silvers!

And a beautiful trio you have there. I am still on the hunt for a blank and a resist...
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R
ewand said:
Just back from service at @Sir Alan ... May 72 6030R dial RESIST, with Roman day wheel...

View attachment 448819
View attachment 448820

Wearing on an Uncle Seiko H-link; it came to me on a Stelux President but I've slapped that on another watch for now...
View attachment 448821
Click to expand...
Wow! That’s so nice. Congratulations!


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CombatID
8
My 6139-6002 got yo me from Venezuela today! It will need a service and a case refinish, but it’s all correct. The “mushy” JAPAN 6139 text and done slurring of tic marks concerns me, but this will eventually go to Simon for some dial help. It’s not as cherry as yours Ewan, but I’m very happy I risked it and picked it up.











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scubarob99
It looks good! It's pretty harsh lighting, every little imperfection is magnified 10 fold.
Simon will work his magic, hopefully it's just some lume flakes around the date window.
Honest example!

Rob
(Ps. Dibs on this one if you find a better example)
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CombatID
scubarob99 said:
It looks good! It's pretty harsh lighting, every little imperfection is magnified 10 fold.
Simon will work his magic, hopefully it's just some lume flakes around the date window.
Honest example!

Rob
(Ps. Dibs on this one if you find a better example)
Click to expand...
Ha! You got it. We shall see how this one turns out.


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bigbluekyle
bbilford83 said:
So what I'm thinking probably goes without saying, but maybe the Brown dial 6139-6010 is to the export 6139-601X series (otherwise blue and black) what the Silver dial 6139-600X is to the export 6139-600X series? I.e., made in a limited batch, all going bracelet-less to Thong Sia in Hong Kong, with Stelux bracelets added on? The major difference being that for the silver proof Pogues, the "test run" sold well and they decided to continue production of exports through the resist and blank-dialed years? But the brown proof -6010s were nixed once that initial run was gone?

I know this is all speculation, but it seems pretty likely to me from what I've seen. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
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alexblex
Yes, thats THE bracelet!
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Grammarofdesign
alexblex said:
Thats a interesting speculation Brian. In fact the brown does not pop up often. The few I have seen, including mine, all have had the Chinese daywheel. My brown 6010 says hello.


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Click to expand...
Yes I have seen the brown dial version more than a few times over the years and never made the Chinese day wheel observation. Thank you for that Alex.

There's that one on ebay US that has a somewhat corroded dial that hasn't moved in months. I think if it looked pristine like yours it would have sold.
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bigbluekyle
2
This one Sold a long time ago for $500


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B
bigbluekyle said:
This one Sold a long time ago for $500
Click to expand...
That's the one I mentioned Tom had serviced. It's not pictured but he said he recalled the day wheel being English/Chinese on that one too.
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bigbluekyle
Late Edit: Asking price was $575 but Sold for $400.
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