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Let's talk about the history of Silver 6139-600x

26961 Views 166 Replies 33 Participants Last post by  ewand, 
ewand
2
Whether you call the model a "Silver Pogue" or if you insist on only referring to yellow 6139-6005s as "Pogues", the silver-dial 6139-600x variant is both rare and increasingly popular.

I'd like to try and gather what we collectively know, in one place if possible - so please let us know about Silver Pogues you have ...

What I know about Silver Pogues
  • They were available from 1969 - I have had 3 PROOFs in my hand, 2 from July and 1 from October. All were 6139-6000, with WATER 70M PROOF on the dial and WATERPROOF casebacks. The PROOF dial is always a 6030T dial code; 6030R PROOFs are ebay fakes.
  • There are 6139-6001 watches with Silver 6030T dials.
    • Q: has anyone ever seen a 6139-6001 with 6030R dial and confirmed the dial is real? In any colour?
  • There are 6139-6002 models with WATER 70m RESIST dials in both 6030T and 6030R variants. There are no -6005 or -6009 watches with a silver dial.
  • There are 1972 onward 6030T and 6030R dial variants with no text at 9 o'clock
  • All Silver dial 6139-600x have a black/gray chapter ring
  • No Seiko catalog has ever been proven to show a silver dial watch
    • Q: The monochrome Universal Suppliers catalog (here) that's used as proof of the "Aussie Pogue" existing, has one image which most people assume is a yellow dial watch...
      448208


      ... but the key at the start of the catalog does say ...
      448209


      ... so it is always possible that the above image is not yellow, but "grey".
My theory
There's nothing worse than an armchair expert who bases their opinion on a hunch with nothing to back it up.
That said, I have some theories about Silver 6139s that I'd like to test - if you think this (or any of the above assertions) is wrong, and can point to evidence to that effect, please speak up. Maybe we'll all learn something.

  • There were no JDM silver dial 6139-600x - ie no 5 Sports Speedtimers.
    • Q: did they even sell the silver 6139-600x in Japan? I somehow doubt it as there were so many other JDM only variants, why would they need to?
  • The Silver 6139-600x were only sold in what we could say is Asia-Pacific - perhaps centering around Australia and Hong Kong - not Europe or North America
  • Most will have been shipped with Stelux President bracelet
    • Perhaps the chiclet bracelet was an option; there are certainly some which purport to be one-owner watches with chiclet bracelet
    • Is there any evidence that a silver-dial watch came on an H-link bracelet?
    • I have had 2x 70M PROOF watches which came to me in barn-find condition on straight-end diamondback bracelets (like this)... not a great fit but it seems like a coincidence...
  • The Day wheel on Silver watches is always either Chinese or Roman (I. II, III etc)
    • All silver 6139-6000 PROOFs I've seen are Chinese... I'd be inclined to think that it was only sold in Hong Kong, and all of them have Chinese wheels, then they added Roman as an alternative when the 6001/2 came out and was more widely distributed
    • As a reminder - the Chinese day wheel has
      • 日 - Sunday
      • 一 - Monday
      • 二 - Tuesday
      • 三 - Wednesday
      • 四 - Thursday
      • 五 - Friday
      • 六 - Saturday
    • Some owners of Silver dial watches report Kanji day wheels - is it possible they're getting Kanji and Chinese mixed up?
    • I know of one Silver with an Italian day wheel (which I think is pretty unusual in itself), but wonder if it and any other languages are outliers (maybe a previous owner got the day wheel swapped during a service)
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Grammarofdesign
My Silver Pogue is a 6139-6002 T "RESIST" Dial. It came on the president style bracelet. I have had 3 of these over the years all came on presidents. Make of that what you will as you say that's anecdotal not hard evidence.

Note: I am quite aware the tachy ring features the later "box under 60" but I just love the faded blue coloration on the silver dial that I am using it instead of an NOS "proper" bezel.
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Grammarofdesign
Let me add that for 1000% sure there was NEVER a silver dial SpeedTimer 6139-6000. Never.
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TheTigerUK
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Great information Ewan which I will save for sure.

My now traded no text Silver 6002 was from March 73 and had a 6030T dial.

448212
448213


My resist Silver is Feb 1971 with a 6030T dial.

448214
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ewand
How about the day wheels, @Grammarofdesign & @TheTigerUK ...? Are they Roman?
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TheTigerUK
Both Roman.
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Grammarofdesign
ewand said:
How about the day wheels, @Grammarofdesign & @TheTigerUK ...? Are they Roman?
Click to expand...
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CombatID
My plain dial is Roman



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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skg7548
That's a bugger then as my 6002 R dial serial 60xxxx day wheel is Spanish:rolleyes: taper H link bracelet but I fitted that.
No big concern as it's not claiming to be a great one and has had work now being merely presentable when once rough.

http://imgur.com/a/vM7HFPS
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ewand
A 60xxxx serial number with a RESIST 6030R dial? :unsure:
My guess is that your watch was delivered with a Spanish day wheel, but a different coloured dial...
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ewand
CombatID said:
My plain dial is Roman



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That's weird. I always thought the Romans marked it as IV ...
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Grammarofdesign
ewand said:
That's weird. I always thought the Romans marked it as IV ...
Click to expand...
In clock making "4" in Roman numerals is "IIII" as opposed to normal convention "IV"

They say it balances the "8" being "VIII" better on a clock or watch face. Check it out. Always "IIII".
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ewand
Grammarofdesign said:
In clock making "4" in Roman numerals is "IIII" as opposed to normal convention "IV"
Click to expand...
Well, so it is. I said we might learn something :)

448224
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skg7548
ewand said:
A 60xxxx serial number with a RESIST 6030R dial? :unsure:
My guess is that your watch was delivered with a Spanish day wheel, but a different coloured dial...
Click to expand...
Makes sense, some notes I have show it came from a once prolific forum member who disappeared after a scandal on this forum, fan of Enicar watches I recall :giggle:
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TheTigerUK
At least you got your watch from him Steve.

skg7548 said:
Makes sense, some notes I have show it came from a once prolific forum member who disappeared after a scandal on this forum, fan of Enicar watches I recall :giggle:
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ewand
skg7548 said:
Makes sense, some notes I have show it came from a once prolific forum member who disappeared after a scandal on this forum, fan of Enicar watches I recall :giggle:
Click to expand...
I'm not saying you have a fake dial - to me, it looks like it's consistent with a RESIST R dial I have... so I'd suggest at minimum your case back has been swapped with a 1976 watch, or possibly the case and/or movement might be from one watch, and the dial from another...
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skg7548
TheTigerUK said:
At least you got your watch from him Steve.
Click to expand...
There was an alarming long/nervous delivery time😧
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skg7548
ewand said:
I'm not saying you have a fake dial - to me, it looks like it's consistent with a RESIST R dial I have... so I'd suggest at minimum your case back has been swapped with a 1976 watch, or possibly the case and/or movement might be from one watch, and the dial from another...
Click to expand...

It's Ok, I know the dial is true and aware the watch is a bitzer, hadn't realised the day wheel issue though in that Spanish didn't apply to these. Pollyc probably remembers detail this one.
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bigbluekyle
ewand said:
  • Most will have been shipped with Stelux President bracelet
    • Perhaps the chiclet bracelet was an option; there are certainly some which purport to be one-owner watches with chiclet bracelet
    • Is there any evidence that a silver-dial watch came on an H-link bracelet?
    • I have had 2x 70M PROOF watches which came to me in barn-find condition on straight-end diamondback bracelets (like this)... not a great fit but it seems like a coincidence...
Click to expand...
This Link is not working for me :)
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ewand
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bigbluekyle said:
This Link is not working for me :)
Click to expand...
Oops.... two different watches from auctions, 3 years and located 11,000 miles apart from each other.

448251
448253
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