The Watch Site banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,110 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've been servicing a non running 6146-8010 Grand seiko today and a few issues surfaced that I haven't tackled before. On the strip down I found the centre seconds wheel was gummed up with old lube inside the minute wheel and this was preventing he movement from turning freely (all the other degraded lube didn't help either). I also noticed the diafix spring for the dial side of the escape wheel was loose. On further inspection I found there was no end cap in there at all! You can see where the spring and end cap should normally be here.



You can see the two diashock and two diafix sets of jewels, chatons and caps in the picture, but only one diafix end cap.



This would cause the escape wheel to have far to much end shake and it probably wouldn't have run very well anyway, even if the lube was fresh. Luckily it's a standard size and I have spare ones. When I went to dismantle the going train upon inspecting the pallet forks engagement with the escape wheel I notice the pallet jewel was sticking up at an angle, this is a critical part and should be dead flat in line with the fork. The watch would never have run properly like that, it was just about engaging the escape wheel.



I think when the watch was reassembled last time and the escape wheel end cap was omitted, the end shake was so much that due to a shock, the escape wheel moved down, came back up under the end stone and it bent it upwards. These end stones are usually held in place with shellac, obviously not this one.

How it should sit



And how it is



I've seen this a couple of times before, in fact last week I saw a similar pallet fork on a 6139 I serviced just last week. My usual fix is just to replace the pallet fork, however with this being a 36,000bph, 6146 calibre, spares are unobtainable. I've had a look at all the parts houses and there's nothing listed for the 6146. That's nothing at all, never mind a pallet fork! The only thing I can do is re-glue the stone into the fork. I've spent a pleasant couple of hours removing the old shellac and truing up the end stone so it looked like this.



As I don't have a spirit lamp, hot plate and shellac which is the old school way of doing things I've glued it back in place with some two part epoxy.



I've read that epoxy is a good substitute. This is the first time I've had to repair a pallet fork, like I say I normally just replace but with the lack of any spares my hands were tied this time. I'll let it set overnight and reassemble in the morning. Fingers crossed it will do the trick. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,125 Posts
As I don't have a spirit lamp, hot plate and shellac which is the old school way of doing things I've glued it back in place with some two part epoxy.
:clap::clap::clap:

If you ever want to try I have a spare spirit lamp, hot plate and shellac. I've done a few jewel refits in palet forks with the fusee powered ships clocks and I have to say next time I am going to try the epoxy method!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,973 Posts
Thank's for the interesting post Duncan, it's nice to see work in detail (great pictures). I guess I am not the only one that loses diafix and diashock parts, I would never ignore the lack of parts though like the previous watchmaker.

Fixing pallet jewels is way too fiddly for me but if forced I too would try the epoxy method, but not the five minute stuff:biggrin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
The only real problem with epoxy for that is that if you don't get the pallet depth right on the first try you're kinda stuck - with shellac you can warm it and move the stone to correct the locking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,125 Posts
Actually the shellac method isn't terrible. It's worse on fresh jewels and palets as on the old ones there tends to be enough shellac left where just heating the palet fork up will do the trick and a bit of shaped pegwood is the only other item needed. That's on larger platform type escapements but I am sure it'll be the same deal with watch sized palets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,110 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
After reassembly I'm pleased to report it's running well, phew!

Joe, I realised I was only going to have one shot at getting it right but fortunately the end stone was a tight fit in the fork, so I positioned it where I thought it should be and refitted the whole fork to check it locked and unlocked the escape wheel before I glued it. After a couple of adjustments it seemed to be doing it's job, but I did think I'm buggered if it moves when I take it out for the last time to apply the epoxy. :)

The hairspring was also bent so when the watch was dial up the coils were dragging on the balance cock which confused me for a minute, I thought I'd mullered the end stone alignment. After a correction with the fine tipped dumonts it's now running very well.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,110 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
All ways a good read Duncan and great pictures. Are you using a little digital microscope? I meant to get one already.
No microscope here I'm afraid Tom, I would like one but unfortunately there are tools I need more urgently.

Here's my high-tech setup, a x10 loupe wedged on the lens of my ancient coolpix compact. :)

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,308 Posts
well that is a great looking watch with amazing work...impressive work...John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,237 Posts
Spectacular. I admire the way you used years of watchmaking experience and good old fashioned ingenuity to solve this issue. I only wish my local watchmaker was a tenth as talented as you have shown us here.

BTW I have a similar ancient CoolPix and I still love it. It puts the darn iPhone camera to shame.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,125 Posts
Guys,

Wouldn't 'Vinegar' soften the epoxy enabling removing?
You can get chemicals made to remove epoxy glue. I've had to use them in the past when removing epoxy glue from skeleton clock domes. Some epoxy glue can be removed by leaving in warm water for a while. Not the rapid expoxy though, that is harder to remove than the slow setting stuff.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top