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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone,

I'm new to vintage watches so I have no clue whether this watch is real or not. Although there are several websites that describes what should a real vintage Seiko 5 look like, I'm still confused at this point. Anyways, I got this watch on E-Bay for AU$45 from an Aussie seller that has 100% positive feedback (selling several things including vintage watches) and the watch is on the way.

The seller's description on the watch are:

Simply shake to start automatic movement, set time and wear

New leather band
21 jewels
Refurbished and serviced
Keeps correct time
Made in Japan
1980's

Take a look at the pictures provided by the seller.
 

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Ultimate Collector
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Well, it's hideous. The dial defies belief.
There's no way Seiko produced that...

From India I reckon.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's the thing, it's so hideous looking that I ended up getting it. Anyways, that's unfortunate. I want to return it and get a refund, but its just a hassle at this point. Mighty as well use it for whatever "screw it, I don't care" occasions. Also, this came with an above-average quality 18mm leather strap that is useful.

Do you have any watch suggestions that fits an 18mm strap?
 

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I wouldn't be so sure on that. looks like it might be an Allwyn A6319, an Indian manufacturer, made under licence from Seiko.
If you look at the balance bridge you will see it has no rounded notch on the outer edge...pure Chinese forgery. Probably a CHI7009.
The dial is a standard Chinese one with the 'diamonds' at the 12 o'clock position.

I doubt this one came from India.

If it is running and keeping time, the OP should just wear it and enjoy it for the looks that attracted him to it in the first place.
Or crush it in a 100ton press :eek:hmy:
 

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My first impression is that the dial screams "India", although I suppose it could just as easily be Chinese in origin. Either way it's a Feiko.
 

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Was I the only one who noticed that SEIKO on the caseback was too large compared to what we enthusiasts regularly see on what we know are genuine Seikos?

And the "E" was off (it was a bit larger than the other letters) in the "SEIKO"

On the dial itself, the "S" is bigger than the other letters in "SEIKO". The "E" is wavy. and the "O" isn't perfectly round.
 

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Ultimate Collector
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Was I the only one who noticed that SEIKO on the caseback was too large compared to what we enthusiasts regularly see on what we know are genuine Seikos?

And the "E" was off (it was a bit larger than the other letters) in the "SEIKO"

On the dial itself, the "S" is bigger than the other letters in "SEIKO". The "E" is wavy. and the "O" isn't perfectly round.
Yes, the whole thing is fake.

FYI.. The O in SEIKO is not perfectly round on genuine dials. it is slightly oblong.
A perfectly round O is a sure sign of a fake.
 

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Yes, the whole thing is fake.

FYI.. The O in SEIKO is not perfectly round on genuine dials. it is slightly oblong.
A perfectly round O is a sure sign of a fake.
thanks for the info, Jim !

Sent from my B15Q using Tapatalk
 

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well hello and welcome to the forum....great to have u with us....well looks like someone had their hands in this one....and sadly you did overpay quite a bit for it too...if u have the chance to return it...i would highly suggest it...dress watches are the most overlooked part of the seiko ciitizen line up.....great deals can be found on nice original examples with original bands too....i would not suggest putting any more money into this one as u will not get it back for sure....God Bless,John
 

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If you look at the balance bridge you will see it has no rounded notch on the outer edge...pure Chinese forgery. Probably a CHI7009.
The dial is a standard Chinese one with the 'diamonds' at the 12 o'clock position.

I doubt this one came from India.

If it is running and keeping time, the OP should just wear it and enjoy it for the looks that attracted him to it in the first place.
Or crush it in a 100ton press :eek:hmy:
Definitely not a Chi7009 it doesn't look anything like a 7009, The OP's movement is a 3 tier movement not 2 tier like the 7009. The 7009 has only one locating pin for the balance not 2 as the OP's movement has.
If you look at a Seiko 6319 there is no rounded cut out on the balance bridge and it also has 2 locating pins.

It looks a dead ringer for a 6319, if you look on the auto framework (which the 7009 doesn't have) youll see 21j, and what I think are the letters AL, the rest if any are covered by an unsigned rotor.
Appears to be a screw missing from the auto framework as well, that's definitely not a good sign.
The Allwyn A6319 was totally made in India under licence, no Seiko parts were used, and by all accounts no Seiko parts will fit .This is the movement that appeared in the infamous Seiko 6319 7040 fake divers some years back.

The dial is typical of the Indian repaints that are flooding Fleabay at the moment, like this one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-S...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Click on "see original listing" and go to the pics of the movement, youll see exactly what I mean
 

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hey i have seen those indian 6319 knockoffs....they sell very cheap on ebay...i was able to years ago find a 6349 Seiko info from one of those sellers....the seiko was original and untouched....
 

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Definitely not a Chi7009 it doesn't look anything like a 7009, The OP's movement is a 3 tier movement not 2 tier like the 7009. The 7009 has only one locating pin for the balance not 2 as the OP's movement has.
If you look at a Seiko 6319 there is no rounded cut out on the balance bridge and it also has 2 locating pins.

It looks a dead ringer for a 6319, if you look on the auto framework (which the 7009 doesn't have) youll see 21j, and what I think are the letters AL, the rest if any are covered by an unsigned rotor.
Appears to be a screw missing from the auto framework as well, that's definitely not a good sign.
The Allwyn A6319 was totally made in India under licence, no Seiko parts were used, and by all accounts no Seiko parts will fit .This is the movement that appeared in the infamous Seiko 6319 7040 fake divers some years back.

The dial is typical of the Indian repaints that are flooding Fleabay at the moment, like this one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-S...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Click on "see original listing" and go to the pics of the movement, youll see exactly what I mean
You are probably right; I just haven't been paying any attention to anything coming out of India lately.
Either way it is a fake and a travesty :mad:
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Thanks everyone for your inputs. I didn't expect to have many responses (HAHAHA).

Anyways, I did open up a claim for a refund, however, the seller refused to accept it and replied back to me with "The item purchased is a seiko refurbished watch. Movement and case are vintage seiko made in Japan". The product's description was stated that there are no returns, however, finding that its pretty much a fake, E-Bay "may" side with me on this. I have to wait till like the 9th of October for E-Bay to investigate the case.

I've been researching E-Bay's money back guarantee clause. Some people have stated there are times that I have to provide a certificate from a 3rd party that the watch is indeed a fake. That sounds nice, however, upon stumbling on the price to "authenticate" this watch (around $80-$100 I think), I'd rather keep this. Fingers crossed it wouldn't lead to that lol.

I do hope I get a refund, so I can use that to get better watch that is also "genuine" lol.

Edit 1: The seller has messaged me saying:

"A no returns policy was written on the item description for this item. This item was originally made in Japan for export. As the watch is old late 1970's, it was Refurbished and replaced with a new dial. Case and movement are original seiko with a few replaced parts, when service and refurbishment were done".

Don't know whether to continue the case or just drop it and move on HAHA.
 

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Thanks everyone for your inputs. I didn't expect to have many responses (HAHAHA).

Anyways, I did open up a claim for a refund, however, the seller refused to accept it and replied back to me with "The item purchased is a seiko refurbished watch. Movement and case are vintage seiko made in Japan". The product's description was stated that there are no returns, however, finding that its pretty much a fake, E-Bay "may" side with me on this. I have to wait till like the 9th of October for E-Bay to investigate the case.

I've been researching E-Bay's money back guarantee clause. Some people have stated there are times that I have to provide a certificate from a 3rd party that the watch is indeed a fake. That sounds nice, however, upon stumbling on the price to "authenticate" this watch (around $80-$100 I think), I'd rather keep this. Fingers crossed it wouldn't lead to that lol.

I do hope I get a refund, so I can use that to get better watch that is also "genuine" lol.

Edit 1: The seller has messaged me saying:

"A no returns policy was written on the item description for this item. This item was originally made in Japan for export. As the watch is old late 1970's, it was Refurbished and replaced with a new dial. Case and movement are original seiko with a few replaced parts, when service and refurbishment were done".

Don't know whether to continue the case or just drop it and move on HAHA.
If you drop it then one more crook gets away with it :mad:
 
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