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matter, but grunge/rot/crap the so called "Wabbie" imo looks crap on a watch :)

Well the dial on my Poof/Proof had enough grunge to prevent me wearing and enjoying it so I decided to send it off to James for a vintage relume and this is the result.

I'm very pleased with the vintage look he has given the lume and what does impress me is the "softness" of the glow when charged and viewed in the dark (I still charge any watch i am wearing at night before going to bed if it has lume still :) ).



 

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Brilliant job :10: This guy could relume the Mona Lisa IMHO :grin:

That being said, on my side it is the lack of any sabi that prevents me wearing a watch. A pristine one makes me too scared to make any scuff :eek:hmy: Yet, a wristwatch is intended to be worn, isn't it? ;)

Cheers,
Mathieu
 

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It does look nice and that's about the only style of relume I'd consider.

I typically like wabi and originality...nasty and original is my favorite provided it doesn't look like a total rust bucket.

Nicely done, though. :)
 

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The watch itself is already so nice looking so by re-luming the way you did looks odd!
Personally I dont care for that aged look at all! JMHO
 

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bored by "Academic" discussions? skip this post :)

...but I promise it's relevant, and may even be of interest to some of you :cool:

Japanese aesthetics were developed over many centuries, and refined / defined by the guys who went big time into Tea Ceremony, etc. --typically the pioneer in this area was Sen no Rikyu (1522-1591)
=> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sen_no_Rikyu


:grin: I told you this was going to be "heavy", but hold on, I'll try to keep it short and simple :grin:

SAs it happens, the shortcut to this way to enjoy the beauty of the World around us ls known as "WABI & SABI" (as in John's "wabbie", but one needs to throw in the "sabbie" too)


Now the interesting point is WABI stands literally for "apologize", be humble, etc. => in aesthetics, it's to be opposed to everything that is show off, in one word refuse "BLING" and prefer "WABI"

...so, nothing there about patina or aging : this is about understatement, and the beauty of what is both functional and beautiful by essence and not by design... referring to "design" as when someone tries desperately to make something beautiful (...and generally ends up with "decorative arts" or flashy gold stuff, etc.) whereas AS WE ALL KNOW the real beauty --of a Seiko Divers Watch, just as a random example-- is in the fact that function comes first, and form results beautiful because function has been refined to its utmost, resulting in a beautiful object.
(sorry,am typing this as it comes, and I type fast and don't intend to re-read, so apologies for repetitions, etc. --apologies to those of you who didn't skip this post immediately, and are not yet dozing off...)

SOooo, the interesting point is when people on this Forum talk about "WABI=wabbie" they are using the wrong term : we Seiko lovers all agree I'm sure that whether it's a 6105, a Tuna or a modern Grande Seiko, these things are all things of beauty because of their WABI --with thanks to Japanese generally for developing the good taste that is sometimes found in Swiss watches as well, but generally speaking less and less as new material (Carbon fiber, Titanium, you name it) are being introduced for an increasingly "Bling-Bling" client base...


now what's "SABI" ?? interestingly enough, it means literally RUST (as in the oxidation of iron by whatever it is that makes it rust --oxygen I guess) and that is the only meaning of that word --even though it's of course more complicated when put in the mouth of those 16th century tea-ceremony guys, as you would expect :)

Anyway, when we colectively refer to WABI in fact we mean SABI = RUST and we're discussing whether we like our watches rusted or not :p:p:p

=> of course the point is the term RUST was used by Sen no Rikyu and his followers as a shortcut for "PATINA", the aging which makes all things beautiful look even better once they have been worn --as in worn by their users AND worn by Time, beaten up by weather and bad treatment, etc.

...and don't we ALL (or most of us "Senior Members", including Junior ones like me) look much better now than we did when we were 20 and so happy with ourselves and how we looked and felt??


IN CONCLUSION> (not that this desrves one, as I'm afraid what precedes has gone a bit all over the place, and as already stated I don't intend to even re-resd it) ...in conclusion then, I think the point is we cannot NOT LOVE SABI as patina --an offending ststement to some members maybe, but hey, if you are interested in any Seiko watch which is not new, you must have some kind of love for patina, no? ...unless you want perfect pristine examples, which are fine too, but what's the point, just buy a new Seiko if what you want is perfect brand new (plus a bit of BLING too?)

Any watch lover hates RUST, as it eats the innards of your watch and will kill it better than anything else, but who doesn't love SABI-the-Japanese way?

Without any hope of succeeding, humbly submitted in the hopes people on this Forum will stop confusing WABI for SABI and will come out of their closet (or cubicle or whatever walls they have built in their brain?) to tell us how SABIed they like their watches...

Again, humbly submitted but in great respect of both the Japanese aesthetics and the Seiko engineers who produced such perfect examples as the Divers from 1965 to... 1985 or so with the Golden Tuna 1000m ceramic shroud : only 20 years, but what beauty produced by Mr. Tokunaga and his team !!!

In love of Tunas and all other classic and oh-so-WABI Seiko watches, with or without SABI (and attaching as an example one pic of a workhorse 7548-7000 with 30 years of wear and tear "sabi", still plowing fine though)
 

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WABI stands literally for "apologize", be humble, etc. => in aesthetics, it's to be opposed to everything that is show off, in one word refuse "BLING" and prefer "WABI"
...
now what's "SABI" ?? interestingly enough, it means literally RUST (as in the oxidation of iron by whatever it is that makes it rust --oxygen I guess)
...
=> of course the point is the term RUST was used by Sen no Rikyu and his followers as a shortcut for "PATINA", the aging which makes all things beautiful look even better once they have been worn --as in worn by their users AND worn by Time, beaten up by weather and bad treatment, etc.
Great and useful information :c017:
Thanks to you I will never again mix up WABI and SABI, I promise :)

Cheers,
Mathieu
 

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As almost all fo the watches I have owned have all been "previously loved" by their former owners I am stuck with wabi.

I fell bad when I purchase a watch new and hurt it in any way.

My parts house beater on the other hand I cheaped out and went with the mineral crystal to save $10 over the sapphire and have worn it with total disregard.

The stem is now bent, the crystal is scratched up, and the case is dinged.

When I had it serviced I said just make it run leave the rest as is as a tribute to what I had managed to do to it.

On the other hand I "love" the patina on my 6306 birth watch that I was fortunate enough to obtain from the original owner from Australia who purchased it in Hong Kong when has a teenager on "holiday"

I made the mistake of wearing it outside for a week straight and the creamy brown lume turned grey after constant exposure to the sun for a week. It took a month before it luckily returned to creamy brown. The watch has not been outside in the last 5 years since that indecent.



 

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As almost all fo the watches I have owned have all been "previously loved" by their former owners I am stuck with wabi.

I fell bad when I purchase a watch new and hurt it in any way.

On the other hand I "love" the patina on my 6306 birth watch that I was fortunate enough to obtain from the original owner from Australia who purchased it in Hong Kong when has a teenager on "holiday"

I made the mistake of wearing it outside for a week straight and the creamy brown lume turned grey after constant exposure to the sun for a week. It took a month before it luckily returned to creamy brown. The watch has not been outside in the last 5 years since that indecent.
I did not know about this color change in sunlight So glad to hear it was reversible. Maybe wear it out on a big Saturday Night ?
 

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I did not know about this color change in sunlight So glad to hear it was reversible. Maybe wear it out on a big Saturday Night ?

indeed, I have the same experience with a 7548-7000 which looked like it had the perfect "patina" on it... until Spring and sunny days came and and within weeks the indices had turned totally brownish and the lume on the hands just plain fell off as a kind of white powder. Quite a shock.

But isn't that what "sabbie" is about? I wouldn't lock a vintage watch in a drawer (even a precious 6105) because it will "age" further when worn : relume it nicely (bright white or "fake patina", your choice) or accept the aging process like we all do about our own skin and bones and all :)
(speaking of which, could/should one protect the watch by covering the crystal with maximum protection sun screen?? ...just joking of course.

In love of patina and acceptance of wrinkles, sun spots, etc........Philip
 

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indeed, I have the same experience with a 7548-7000 which looked like it had the perfect "patina" on it... until Spring and sunny days came and and within weeks the indices had turned totally brownish and the lume on the hands just plain fell off as a kind of white powder. Quite a shock.

But isn't that what "sabbie" is about? I wouldn't lock a vintage watch in a drawer (even a precious 6105) because it will "age" further when worn : relume it nicely (bright white or "fake patina", your choice) or accept the aging process like we all do about our own skin and bones and all :)
(speaking of which, could/should one protect the watch by covering the crystal with maximum protection sun screen?? ...just joking of course.

In love of patina and acceptance of wrinkles, sun spots, etc........Philip
Have ever noticed though how for some reason a really scratched up crystal seems to protect the lume underneath on the dial ?

How many times have you had a watch and you could hardly see the dial due to the state of the crystal but when the old crystal removed underneath you have found the perfect dial ?
 
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