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Discussion Starter #1
Greetings watch enthusiasts. I need to find an expert in citizen ecodrives. I just got this ecodrive navihawk from overseas for (hopefully) repair. See the picture below for previewing the watch:
imgclock1.jpg

The watch is operating normally, however (I knew that) the stem is out of the watch, I mean, you can remove it by just pulling it. The stem appears to be intact, no visible sign of being broken; I just don't know how to fix this, if is "doable" by an amateur watcher, if needs some parts replacement, etc, so I would like to hear from some experienced watcher. As this watch depends on the crown to select the modes and operations, the watch is stuck in [time] mode:
imgclock2.jpg
 

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Welcome! Check out this video:


The video quality isn't great, but it'll give you a sense of what's involved with repairing the crown on a C650 movement like yours. It involves removing the top plate and the circuit board even just to get at the keyless works that secure the stem. I've not worked on the C650, but I have worked on others that use the crown to select different modes. Those parts internally that the stem interacts with can be finicky!


I'd start by watching the video to see the minimum dismantling that's involved, and then decide if you feel up to it. I'd also examine the stem to see if its worn down. If it looks worn, then it could be that a new stem may fix the problem. I think that more likely, the works inside the watch that interact with the stem may have become bent, or something like that. Worst case scenario, it appears that an entirely new movement (with stem) can be had for just under $100. Then you'd get to wade into the fun world of removing and re-setting hands... :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
stem fix??

Hi @twall3,

Thank you very much for your kind reply, and for pointing for the video and this website, which I didn't knew before and seems to have the best prices ever (at least comparing with other websites regarding the eco-drive capacitors that I was looking for).

Disassembling the watch like he did in the video seems feasible for me; the problem I guess would be to recognize any problem in the works inside the watch that interact with the stem, as you said, if they may have become bent.

I am providing below the closest macro image that I manage to get from the stem; comparing with other images (e.g. from timeconnection) it seems pretty normal, but I do not have experience to assess that. Keeping that line of thought, if the problem was not in the stem, how to "connect" it again in the movement?

IMG_2545.jpg

Thanks again and regards!
 

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Hopefully another member can chime in, that maybe knows more about these stems. But first thought would be if the stem is the correct one. If not, then it wouldn't necessarily engage with the internals (I don't have any reason to think it wouldn't be the original/correct stem, just playing devil's advocate). I'd think that if your comfortable with the task, then stripping it down to see if there are any obvious problems makes sense (at least, that's what I would do) as a next step. At worst, your out $100 for a new movement, plus a couple bucks for the tools to swap over the dial and hands; at best, you inch closer to diagnosing the problem and a potential fix.
 

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If stem pulls out (and it’s the correct stem) it’s usually a set lever issue (the piece in charge of holding the stem in place).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Again thanks for the feedback guys!

A good question is: in the best case scenario, if the stem is the correct one (the crown has the Promaster logo, even though I understand that someone could have switched the wrong stem on the correct crown) it would be "just" pull it and it would "click", i.e., engage in the movement? I have seem some videos where that seems to be the case. When I (gently) try to pull and rotate the crown, it seems to be a bit loose, although it touches in some parts of the inner components, as it would happen if the stem were thinner than the parts where it should fit to adjust the modes... anyway, just my impression.
 

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Aloha

I would go along with all the above advice and would add :

Acidstain good point : If the Stem Engager is .... Bent or Damage ....
then it needs to be check.
Also : If that Stem is to short or the wrong one it could effect it.

Next :
twall has another good point there also and should be followed.

I always like the method he uses to remove parts and it help along.
( Use of Plastic Tweezers and Sticky Paper really helps from damaging parts.)
Also be very careful when .... Prying or Touching the Board and Holding Tabs and use a
.... Plastic Tool or Pointer .... at all possible.also.
(Just a few points I come across also)
Louis
 

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...the crown has the Promaster logo, even though I understand that someone could have switched the wrong stem on the correct crown...

Ah, good. I didn't see it in the photos, but that's a good sign. I may have thrown a red herring in there suggesting it could be wrong, but always good to check the simple stuff first :). Definitely worth checking the setting lever, then. I know that on the Swiss ETA 2824-2 mechanical movement, if one over-presses the stem-release, it can cause the setting lever to shift and you have to remove the winding bridge to reset it manually (done this before...not hard at all, just a pain). Hopefully it's something similar and simple like that on your C650
 

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I just ordered some setting levers for the C650 movement, part number is 067-1950. On the C650 movement changing out the setting lever is fairly involved, requires removing the metal back plate, the circuit, and a metal plate that covers the setting mechanism. The yoke, copper switches, all have to be removed, as the setting stem goes in first, so, of course, it comes out last. You need good magnification to do the repair, and a decent set of vice grips.

Just joking about the vice grips, a crappy set will do. Actually, if you're considering vice grips, you might want to send it out.
 

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Most of the Citizen Skyhawk models that I have worked on, with the T000959, T000967, Q02616, Q02128 cases, and some others, use the pictured stem and crown. Just so happened that I'm working on one now, broken stem, hence the picture. Case number would be needed to ascertain whether or not you simply have the wrong crown/stem. If not, either the stem is not set properly in relation to the crown, or the setting lever is broken.

Aloha from Maui, Rodico, it's not just for breakfast anymore
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Aloha guys, thanks for all the incredible feedback! This discussion is the best ever :)
However, as we advance in the discussion, it seems like we're talking about an aircraft engine, specially looking to the schematics of the manual. It is exciting, but also challenging; I mean, according to the manual, in order to get to the setting lever spring, I must first go by other 47 steps in the disassembling process... pretty scary...
 

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Aloha guys, thanks for all the incredible feedback! This discussion is the best ever :)
However, as we advance in the discussion, it seems like we're talking about an aircraft engine, specially looking to the schematics of the manual. It is exciting, but also challenging; I mean, according to the manual, in order to get to the setting lever spring, I must first go by other 47 steps in the disassembling process... pretty scary...
Aloha ,
If you are new to all this you might want to go to a place called ...Office Max like in the USA or a Stationary Outlet and get yourself couple of these for your watch work. I have them also and when
I dis-assemble I do ..2 or 3 at a time if the same watch but I remember about them if I store them f
or a few days and they work great and washable too.
Here was a Office Max Closing out two years ago and they had BIN'S of things and these were all together in a bunch so I bought all ....15- of them for use and extras. At a ....$1.00 a Piece who
could loose. Just place some Paper Towels in there and you can do some work after washing every thing.
 

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If you do decide to tackle it yourself, take a picture every step of the way.
Excellent advice. Make sure you have a macro-capable camera or phone and take photos of every angle you think is important. Open them up on a tab or laptop as you proceed with the disassembly and reassembly. I've done 3 C300s and even a Miyota 0S10 movement by this method.
 

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Next one I have opened, with the same or a similar problem, I'll post pics of the dis-assembly. You're on your own putting it back together.

Where'd this extra screw come from???
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Aloha! Amazing hints guys. Thanks. I was thinking that if I was disassembling/assembling 3 watches at the same time, probably I would notice more than a few extra screws :) I wouldn't be surprised if four watches emerged from the experience :kiss: all of them working, of course :D
 

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Aloha ,

It is not that hard after one has done this many and of the same watch models.
You actually get self Program'ed in doing them. Doing them for a while
does make a imprint on the Memory and Brain then it comes automatically.
It is just like having ...... Storage In The Brain Hard Drive......:57:
Aloha
Louis
 

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