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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for some assist with a 5M43 kinetic....

Was proud of myself after my first capacitor change (bought a new one on the bay) but now not so much.


After putting in the new capacitor, the charge showed full (20 second jump when pushing the button) for quite awhile (months) but now it had decreased charge and does not appear to be charging. Wore it for a full week when it was at a 10 second jump. it never increased. now it is at a 5 second jump.... Guess it ain't charging. Uh, do the replacement capacitors charge...?

Any advice? Rotor is swinging smoothly, what'd I miss?? It has been probably 6 months or more since I replaced it.




This is the one in question:








I really hope not to have to relegate this one to the "dead watch drawer"
 

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Mmmm... Before I bought a charger I would swing my Kinetics for hours in front of TV. ???
Maybe a full night of swiging might help? At least you will see if its charging. After a few hours It should go back to the 20 sec mark

Good luck!

Man those new smilies are weird
[move] ^-^ [/move]
 

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Steve
Can you post a photo of the watch with the back off. I want to see the oscillating weight and charging circuit.

SteveO said:
Looking for some assist with a 5M43 kinetic....

Was proud of myself after my first capacitor change (bought a new one on the bay) but now not so much.


After putting in the new capacitor, the charge showed full (20 second jump when pushing the button) for quite awhile (months) but now it had decreased charge and does not appear to be charging. Wore it for a full week when it was at a 10 second jump. it never increased. now it is at a 5 second jump.... Guess it ain't charging. Uh, do the replacement capacitors charge...?

Any advice? Rotor is swinging smoothly, what'd I miss?? It has been probably 6 months or more since I replaced it.




This is the one in question:








I really hope not to have to relegate this one to the "dead watch drawer"
[/quote]
 

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It takes much more to recharge the new battery (they no longer use a capacitor) than the old capacitors - as an example, for the 4M21 movement, it used to be 700 swings to get to the "20 second" reserve capacity indication - with the new battery, it takes 6000 times - to achieve "full charge" and a 30 second indication, it used to be 1050 to 1200 swings, and with the new battery, Seiko says 12,000 times

However - reserve capacity went from 3 days with the capacitor at fill charge to 40-42 days with the battery (this is for the 4M21 which is the thin kinetic movement)

The manual I have doesn't have info for the 5M43, but for the 5M23, it's the same basic story - 5 seconds went from 100 to 1,000 swings, 10 seconds went from 400 to 6,000 swings, 20 seconds went from 600 to 12,000 swings and 30 seconds went from 800 to 24,000 swings - again, though, with a huge increase in reserve capacity moving from the capacitor to the battery (when you think about it, the change makes sense - the battery has a much higher storage capacity than the capacitor did, so it takes more time to put the energy in. The "capacity measurement" (i.e., 5s, 10s, 20s, or 30s) is essentially reporting the voltage of the energy storage unit (be it a capacitor or a battery), and that voltage means different things for the battery vs. the capacitor.

In ane event, I would guess the charging circuit is working just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the replies....

DrD, thanks for that info, didn't realize it needed so much more swingin'. I must have swung it for another hour tonight with no increase.



KenS, Here are a couple quickie pics I took this evening before it got dark...





 

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I don't know. I had the same problem as Steve. I put the new "power cell" (capacitor, battery, whatever) in and at first it was great. It would be fully charged and hold a charge easily for two weeks (I never let it run all the way down to find out). Then it would only hold a charge for a week and die. Now it doesn't even seem to hold a charge at all. And yes, I know about the 12,000 swings deal. In fact, I'd wear the watch to work and whenever I was doing something that could be performed with one hand I'd have the watch in the other hand swinging away. Then I would come home and swing it while watching TV. Yes, some folks posted that if the lithium battery was an old stock one and fully discharged it may never hold a full charge no matter how many swings you give it. Well I have no idea how to get a "fresh" one, and I'm not going to keep replacing them. That sort of defeats the entire purpose of the watch! Honestly, I am really peeved about the whole Kinetic fiasco and p**sed that I spent as much as I did on the watch. It is the one Seiko I wish I never purchased.

andy b.
 

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aannddyybb said:
I don't know. I had the same problem as Steve. I put the new "power cell" (capacitor, battery, whatever) in and at first it was great. It would be fully charged and hold a charge easily for two weeks (I never let it run all the way down to find out). Then it would only hold a charge for a week and die. Now it doesn't even seem to hold a charge at all. And yes, I know about the 12,000 swings deal. In fact, I'd wear the watch to work and whenever I was doing something that could be performed with one hand I'd have the watch in the other hand swinging away. Then I would come home and swing it while watching TV. Yes, some folks posted that if the lithium battery was an old stock one and fully discharged it may never hold a full charge no matter how many swings you give it. Well I have no idea how to get a "fresh" one, and I'm not going to keep replacing them. That sort of defeats the entire purpose of the watch! Honestly, I am really peeved about the whole Kinetic fiasco and p**sed that I spent as much as I did on the watch. It is the one Seiko I wish I never purchased.

andy b.
If these batteries had an initial charge that lasted for 4 to 6 months, they were not old stock or defective. The problem probably lies with the charging system. Since the cgarging system was designed to charge a 72 hour reserve super cap and not a rechargeable battery; it is entirely possible that the system can't adequately keep the newer batteries charged ???

The kinetic watch with either the capacitor or the Lithium Ion battery is just an idea that has long since been surpassed by standard battery technology and solar technology :'(
 

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There is an upgrade for old kinetics. It upgrades the internal ESU and makes them like modern kinetics.
Did you buy a NOS capacitor or did you buy a new battery?
Did you replace only the capacitor or did you buy an upgrade unit?

There are 2 'upgrades'
1) a pseudo upgrade of only changing a capacitor
2) buying the new kinetic upgrade kit, in which case the charge should hold 4-6 months without any problem.
 

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Time said:
There is an upgrade for old kinetics. It upgrades the internal ESU and makes them like modern kinetics.
Did you buy a NOS capacitor or did you buy a new battery?
Did you replace only the capacitor or did you buy an upgrade unit?

There are 2 'upgrades'
1) a pseudo upgrade of only changing a capacitor
2) buying the new kinetic upgrade kit, in which case the charge should hold 4-6 months without any problem.
The upgrade I purchased consisted of the "power cell" and the metal contact bridge that holds it in place. I didn't find mention of two types of upgrades when I bought it a year or two ago. I do recall that the upgrade was listed as being the new battery and not just a replacement capacitor. Can you provide a link or photo of what you are describing so I can figure out which I have? The insides of my watch look exactly like the photos Steve posted.

Oh, one other thing. When I would push in the power reserve button the second hand would swing ahead 30 seconds to indicate a full charge. Within a day the watch would be stopped. I have no idea if this old style power reserve indicator does or does not work with the "power cell" upgrade.

andy b.
 

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HECK NO!!!! :-\
So, where DO I get that? ??? And, do you think it would have a pretty good shot at fixing my problem? I do like the watch, but it aggravates me even to look at it since it isn't functioning as it is supposed to.

EDIT - I may have misinterpreted something. Am I supposed to get ALL of those pieces (numbered 1-8), or are you just asking about the capacitor? All I recieved would have been #7 and #8. It was quite some time ago so I have no idea if the part number was 3023 5MZ as the capacitor is labeled.

andy b.
 

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The correct lithium ion replacement kit for the 5M2* and 5M4* kinetics is the 3023 5MZ. Google 30235MZ and you will find dozens of places to buy this kit for less than $20. The actual cell that comes in the kit is the Maxell TC920S. If you have replaced yours and are unsure if you installed the correct one, check the markings on the cell. I replaced the cell on my 2000 5M62 about a year ago (kit 3023 44Z) and it has been working fine since.

Here are a few of my bookmarks regarding buying and replacing kinetic ESUs ...

Buying: Swatch, Amazon, WatchPartsOutlet
Replacing: PMWF, Quartzimodo, Ravenna

If you are embarking on this for the first time, I highly recommend working on a clean white surface (e.g. a pillow case). It is very easy for one of those microscopic screws to get away from you.

Hope this helps.

andyb: You should get parts 6, 7 and 8 in the 3023 5MZ kit. The 3023 44Z only has parts 7 and 8. Part 6 is needed if you are replacing the capacitor with a lithium ion cell. The lithium ion cell was introduced with the 5M62 and that is why the 3023 44Z kit does not contain part 6.
 

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I found the website (the PMWF site is what I used) and info on what I replaced. Yes, I used the entire 30235MZ kit (it also included part #6, the metal bridge).

I pulled my watch out of the watch drawer and have been swinging and twirling it since I woke up this morning. Right now when I push the power reserve button it advances 20 seconds. I'll give it one more shot. If it is dead by tomorrow I'll probably write it off.

andy b.
 

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I have the same issue with an older Kinetic after having Coserv replace the cell twice.
I ended up getting a Seiko kinetic charger because I figured i'd be getting other kinetics and it would get some use.
I'm in Michigan and will charge it for free if you are near, i'm not sure where you are - I hate to see someone give up on a watch they so obviously enjoy.

_Tim
 

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Axis11 said:
I'm in Michigan and will charge it for free if you are near, i'm not sure where you are - I hate to see someone give up on a watch they so obviously enjoy.

_Tim
Tim,

I'm down near Allentown, PA. I have been to Michigan on occasion, but making a trip once every 6 months there to charge my watch might be out of the question for now. :) This morning the watch is still holding at 20 seconds on the power reserve. I am going to try and get it up to 30 secs by the end of the day, and see what happens this week.

I do like the watch and would wear it more often if it would hold a charge. I received a PM from a member and here was part of my reply. You can see where I'd have some frustration over this watch:

"Here is what really makes me mad. When I first installed the new power cell, the watch seemed to work fine. I wore it for a week or two and eventually I got it to the point where I could press the power reserve button and the seconds hand would advance 30 seconds to show a full charge. I continued wearing the watch for a few days after this. I then didn't wear teh watch for a month, and the power reserve would advance 20 seconds. I wore it again for a few days and got it back to 30 secs. I then didn't wear it for a few weeks, and the reserve indicated 10 secs. I then got it back to 30 secs, and after only a few days it would indicate 20 secs. Then over a period of a few more weeks I'd take the watch out and swing it around either at work or home and the power reserve never went back above 20 secs. I put it away one weekend and by the end of the weekend it had stopped. I played around with it for another week or so and even if I got the reserve up to 20 secs, by the next morning it would be doing the 2-second advance, indicating a low reserve. At this point I got sick of the dumb thing and put it away until I saw the thread on the Kinetics Friday."

I am going to give it another shot this week and see what happens.

andy b.
 
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