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Discussion Starter #21
So who won the race? El Primero, Calibre 11 or Seiko 6139?


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I think the concensus is that Hauer was first to announce, Zenith introduced first proto type, Seiko was first to mass produce. So I guess each of them took a title for first-something.
 

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Care to explain further why you don’t consider it a big milestone? I’m not a watchmaker but if it was so simple as you say, why didn’t any of them do that?

Cheers


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They did with the standard movements, but they didnt have any new chrono models until 69 and they added the automatic bridge. Chronographs actually go back to the early 1800s.

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They did with the standard movements, but they didnt have any new chrono models until 69 and they added the automatic bridge. Chronographs actually go back to the early 1800s.

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I think that there is a lot more to it than that. All three designs were new. The Caliber 11 group that consisted of Heuer, Hamilton-Buren, Breitling and others took years to design and develop as did Seiko and Zenith. It’s interesting to note too that the 6139 design is the one that has been adopted by most all other auto chronos since 1969. Rolex is famous for using a column wheel vertical clutch design in their Daytona movement when they went completely in-house with it instead of using the Zenith movement slowed down to 28800 bph.


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Discussion Starter #24
They did with the standard movements, but they didnt have any new chrono models until 69 and they added the automatic bridge. Chronographs actually go back to the early 1800s.

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Would you happen to know why the Calibre 11 has the crown on the left? I know it was advertised as a way to indicate that it's an automatic winding system. But I believe the reason was something else.
 

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They did with the standard movements, but they didnt have any new chrono models until 69 and they added the automatic bridge. Chronographs actually go back to the early 1800s.

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I would think (but don’t know) that it wasn’t as simple as just adding a winding bridge. I’m sure there was a lot of repackaging that had to be done to integrate the autowinding mechanism with the chronograph movement, all without adding significant height to the movement.


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I think a lot of the challenge here was about packaging. Building a functional automatic winding chronograph movement that would fit into a reasonably sized case. The article Tod posted above indicated many of the manufactures in this race had started their development efforts as early as 1962. In my opinion, I think what we are seeing with some of the early 69 case numbers for Seiko's 6139s are Seiko ramping up production in anticipation of their launch for the new watch. I agree, they were like the first to mass produce their automatic chronographs for public consumption.
 

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I think the concensus is that Hauer was first to announce, Zenith introduced first proto type, Seiko was first to mass produce. So I guess each of them took a title for first-something.

Yeah, that's the way I've always considered it. "First" is open to interpretation, and you captured how each group was "first" in their own way. Personally, I think first to serialized production is the biggest achievement, which is what Seiko did.
 

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I mispoke when knocking the automatic feature. The chronos were a milestone in the different workings, but IMO being an automatic wasn't a big deal.

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."




"Can we put an end to this debate?"


Probably not. ;) Do what I do! :p Pay no attention at all! :laugh:


- Thomas




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Discussion Starter #30
."




"Can we put an end to this debate?"


Probably not. ;) Do what I do! Pay no attention at all!


- Thomas




.
I don't know which side you're on Thomas but I'm with team 'vintage' Seiko. Bragging rights never hurt anybodyso why not.
 
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