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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’ve got a B872 citizen that was doa, had it out in the UK sunshine for a few days and it’s keeping good time but appears to loose a couple of mins overnight
just wondering if this could be a movement problem rather that a cell one - maybe related to the date change
any ideas would be welcomed
 

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Paul you can check the voltage in the evening and then in the morning and compare. Any loss is down to cell not holding its charge if its way off.

If its good then canon pinion next especially if hands feel loose to turn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Merrit
it’s not quite as simple as that 😂
not even sure how to get to the cell
Watch Analog watch Automotive tire Clock Grey
 

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There must be a + and - somewhere on the circuit board?

We need someone with a service manual!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It’s more trying to get into the watch
it’s double cased
 

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Pic of the back would be nice. I would assume that the rotating movement needs a cleaning, that is normally the problem. Citizen calls for oil on the pivots with most of these movements. Once the movement comes to a halt, the oil, over time, begins to solidify. End result, a watch that is still bzzzzzzzzzzing at 32.768 Khz, but resistance on the gear pivots due to the ex-oil turning into the La Brea tar pit. Not good for mastadons, not good for your watch.
 

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Sometimes the movements need overhauls as (above) the dried oil creates drag.

When I reassemble them and Seiko quartz I don't oil them for this reason.
They have so little power going through them nothing wears.

It doesn't seem like the capacitor - they normally give up fairly rapidly.
 

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Ive learned that lubrication on quartz gear train pivots where specified in the manufacture’s manual is applied more as a corrosion preventative than anything (zero percent humidity is never achieved inside a watch case, so there will always be some moisture in the air inside). If you use a small amount of light synthetic lubricant, it will not likely become gummy when it ages, especially if applied to a clean surface in a sealed environment.
Paul, you are welcome to your opinions, but please do acknowledge when they go against manufacture’s recommendations, for others to make an informed decision as to their own practices. I’m not aware of every quartz tech guide, but still quite a good swath of various maker’s products from high end to low end, and all but the smallest, lowest torque calibers receive oiling on the train pivots. Sometimes even those with plastic pivots! If anyone thinks they know better, I’d like to see their matching R&D hours to disprove the makers’ own guidance.
 

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Ive learned that lubrication on quartz gear train pivots where specified in the manufacture’s manual is applied more as a corrosion preventative than anything (zero percent humidity is never achieved inside a watch case, so there will always be some moisture in the air inside). If you use a small amount of light synthetic lubricant, it will not likely become gummy when it ages, especially if applied to a clean surface in a sealed environment.
Paul, you are welcome to your opinions, but please do acknowledge when they go against manufacture’s recommendations, for others to make an informed decision as to their own practices. I’m not aware of every quartz tech guide, but still quite a good swath of various maker’s products from high end to low end, and all but the smallest, lowest torque calibers receive oiling on the train pivots. Sometimes even those with plastic pivots! If anyone thinks they know better, I’d like to see their matching R&D hours to disprove the makers’ own guidance.


"Paul, you are welcome to your opinions, but please do acknowledge when they go against manufacture’s recommendations,"

I worked for the manufacturer.
Did you not read that?

Manufacturer's sometimes get wise after they print previous recommendation.

We were told by Citizen not to lubricate them.

It's the old oil that causes the problems.

"If anyone thinks they know better," - you DON'T KNOW BETTER. :(

If you are a watchmaker instead of just a keyboard one why do we NEVER see any of your apparent excellent work?
 

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If you are a watchmaker instead of just a keyboard one why do we NEVER see any of your apparent excellent work?
Paul, you seem hung up on this, and while I don’t need to share my resumé with you, I’m happy to give context to my approach and mentality. I went to a small watchmaking school that while not brand-affiliated did prepare me to pass the CW21 test from AWCI. I’ve continued my career for the last 17 years with additional training (and testing) from two major brands, and work in a setting (in a retail store) where I am fortunate to be constantly challenged to do my best work daily for the public. To avoid any conflicts of interest and to keep my presence here strictly as a hobby and for fun (how’s that going?), I do not advertise nor solicit here. This is why you don’t see my work here as much any more, but rest assured that I still love working on Seiko and Citizen watches for my own collection, and will continue to want to see watchmaking put in a positive light.
To the OP, I wish I had some better insight, but diagnosis without disassembly seems like no more than a shot in the dark. A few bent teeth in the dial train could cause something like this, and the only way to know would be to examine them, for example.
 

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It's so nice to see a thoughtful, polite, and well rounded response to the OP's question. But, on the serious side, (this won't last long), Dr. Moebius did come up with a specialty lubricant/oil. specifically for use on plastic parts, numbered the ubiquitous Moebius 9024. It stays where it's put, provides excellent lubrication over an extended period of time, and, according to the aforementioned Dr. Moebius, 'It's also absolutely perfect for those situations in which you need a little extra lubricant on your XXXXX, prior to sticking it into a waiting XXXXXXX." Dr. Moebius is pictured below, shortly after discovering this additional bonus application for 9024.

Alohaha from #50.2
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I’m tempted to try a new cell - i presume it’s a monocoque- undo the four screws and ‘peel away the layers’?
 

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I’ve got a B872 citizen that was doa, had it out in the UK sunshine for a few days and it’s keeping good time but appears to loose a couple of mins overnight
just wondering if this could be a movement problem rather that a cell one - maybe related to the date change
any ideas would be welcomed
Just letting you know what i found. I got a Citizen Eco Drive panda and it was dead. The person said it was in a drawer for a few years. I put it in a sunny window and by the charge indicator it took almost 8 days to fully charge. After that I have had no problem with it. Just a suggestion to let it soak in the sun for another 5 or 6 days. Possibly you won't have to replace the capacitor. Got nothing to lose but a few days. Hope this helps.
 
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