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So was looking through eBay earlier and came across a 6138-7000 purported as original which is not. The auction number is: 180996149214 (this is allowed even though the auction is live, under the fact that this post is a warning)...


What threw me at first was the caseback was not the normal fake one, but as you can see, the condition of the case in comparison to the caseback that has been installed on there is quite disparate. So you might be asking yourself how do I know that the whole watch is a fake, and not just the dial (which can be easily identified as the numbers 00 appear at the 6:00 subdial and they should be 60)..


Well as many of you may remember, I ended up with one of these fake 6138-7000 watches and I have studied them now quite carefully. The case in particular is such a good copy that biggest giveaway surprisingly is that the brushing on the case top is odd. It is not completely circular, it sort of fans out across the case rather than runs around it (you can see this clearly in the auction listing). The dimensions of the case incidentally, now I have had a chance to measure an original in comparison, is 100% identical and there are no discernible differences that I can make out other than the finish noted. The inside is a slightly different story however, with generally rougher finishing all around and poor execution of the case tubes, particularly the one for the crown which extends a little too far into the case which actually makes it awkward to install and remove the movement. It is possible however that this variation could change from case to case.
The bezel is also 100% identical on the fake models, with the exception that the red text on the insert is a slightly deeper red than the originals.
Dial as was already noted is a fake, but also so are the hands (which are again very well executed, better than the majority of non-originals normally seen on the bay)..


It is my belief therefore, that this particular watch has been deliberately dressed up with an original and correct bracelet and caseback that was likely (from the looks of these items if they came from the same watch) quite well beaten up. I have contacted the seller and will let you know if I get a response, it is perfectly plausible he may be unaware...


Anyway, this is just a heads up in case any SCWF'ers are looking for this model and may get taken in by this one.
 

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AJ, I was looking at that one and I decided to take a pass on it for the reason of what seemed to me an incorrect refinish and AM bezels so I wasn't comfortable with what else may have lain within. Wasn't sure about the dial, was looking for the tell tale 00 vs 60 but the pics were not quite high enough resolution to be sure. An AM dial was not my real concern as I have a trove of nos parts (starting with a dial) that someday, someday...., will serve me in a restoration. I was not however convinced that the entire watch was faked. I asked Jonathan for an opinion and even he seemed to feel it was well worn survivor that had been tarted up with some AM and of course the questionable refinish.

This is disturbing as for this one particular model it seems like it is harder and harder to find exemplars on the bay that are worth even thinking about buying and even an experienced eye has trouble deciding between faked vs badly restored. Doubly frustrating in that I hemmed and hawed over a BIN/OBO that came and went Saturday on a single family, unrestored listing that wound up going for an offer $150 less than what I was going pitch! My own fault. I've learned enough about the -7000 over the past 5 years to know when to pull the trigger but I choked.

One of these days I will find the right one and step up to the plate but damn if this isn't becoming a white whale sort of quest.
 

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Thank you very much for sharing this observation.
We must be very carefull as the seller had 4 offers already.

I watched the auction and identified the bezel as AM, and the finish of the case looked strange to me, finding a suspicious discordance between the shape of the caseback, the loosenes of the brushed bracelet and the rest of the watch.
I had doubts about the dial as well.

Thanks!!!
 

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He keeps stressing the original bracelet...the description wording makes me think he is quite aware of the shortcomings.
Rob.
 

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scubarob99 said:
He keeps stressing the original bracelet...the description wording makes me think he is quite aware of the shortcomings.
Rob.
Also refers to the cursor which is not in evidence.
 
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