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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Questions concerning how early February through (edit: May 1969 with thanks to rfortson for the May 1969 photo update) 6139-6000 (“Pouge”) SpeedTimer dials look compared to the later dials motivated me to re-post a small research project I did a while back on another forum. This relates only to the "SpeedTimer dials", where the text "SpeedTimer" appears below SEIKO at 12 o'clock in italics and the "5 Shield" logo and SportsWater70Proof is written at 9 o'clock.

We start by grounding this discussing looking at the more familiar style Speed-Timer 5SportsWater70Proof 6139-6000 dial. This one dated Feb. 1970 (or a year after the first known Pogues came out). Late in the game for a SpeedTimer dial, somewhat shortly before the text at 9 o’clock and the SpeedTimer text at 12 o’clock was eliminated. This Dial Code is 6139-6000T.


However the very earliest ones had a unique early style dial. That Dial Code is 6139-6000T AD. (Rod points out that the “AD” in “TAD” indicates “Applied Dial”). Apparently you'll only find these "T AD" dials from Feb. through April 1969. By May 1969 I find they moved to the “T” design. Of course dates are always a bit iffy with Seiko so nothing is written in stone, but I’ve studied this and had about 8 of my own and I will stick with Feb. through April 1969 featuring the TAD dial. Rare catches indeed.


Note with these “TAD” dials there are some subtle differences besides the dial code.
You'll see the font of the "1" in "10" on the T AD early dial is the serif version as seen in later "R" dials, and the "2" in "20" is unlike any other 6139 dials, R or T.
Notice too the early matte hands are present.


But wait! Another difference! The word Speed-Timer below SEIKO at 12 o'clock is different too.
The T AD dial uses the same font but compressed (like Arial vs Arial Narrow in MS Word).
Notice how it barely extends below "SEIKO" in the T AD dial but goes well beyond in the T version:


So, here is a March 1969 Blue Pogue "6139-600T AD" dial for comparison.


Now the Yellow Dials are a different thing altogether. Here is a Yellow May '69 Dial that features the same compressed font as the early blue 1969 T AD Dials.
Note too that in May 1969 Seiko used the matte hands as shown.


I hope this extra minutia is of interest to our legion of Pogue loyalists. I would use this to gage authenticity of the earliest ones especially as Fake Pogue Dials are emerging on the internet.
 

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Really good summary. My blue April '69 has the T AD dial features and fonts you mention for the Feb-April period.
 

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Great Info on the dials Jon!


But what's up with the 6138 pushers on the Feb. 70" 6139 Speedtimer?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Great Info on the dials Jon!


But what's up with the 6138 pushers on the Feb. 70" 6139 Speedtimer?
Ha ha yes I wanted to give it some vintage attitude.

As I said in my original post a few years back on the first forum I posted this on, to all my purist friends I say “so sue me.”! :eek:hmy:

I returned that one to original style pushers before I moved it on. Fun little experiment.
 

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Questions concerning how early February through April 1969 6139-6000 (“Pouge”) SpeedTimer dials look compared to the later dials motivated me to re-post a small research project I did a while back on another forum. This relates only to the "SpeedTimer dials", where the text "SpeedTimer" appears below SEIKO at 12 o'clock in italics and the "5 Shield" logo and SportsWater70Proof is written at 9 o'clock.

We start by grounding this discussing looking at the more familiar style Speed-Timer 5SportsWater70Proof 6139-6000 dial. This one dated Feb. 1970 (or a year after the first known Pogues came out). Late in the game for a SpeedTimer dial, somewhat shortly before the text at 9 o’clock and the SpeedTimer text at 12 o’clock was eliminated. This Dial Code is 6139-6000T.


However the very earliest ones had a unique early style dial. That Dial Code is 6139-6000T AD. (Rod points out that the “AD” in “TAD” indicates “Applied Dial”). Apparently you'll only find these "T AD" dials from Feb. through April 1969. By May 1969 I find they moved to the “T” design. Of course dates are always a bit iffy with Seiko so nothing is written in stone, but I’ve studied this and had about 8 of my own and I will stick with Feb. through April 1969 featuring the TAD dial. Rare catches indeed.


Note with these “TAD” dials there are some subtle differences besides the dial code.
You'll see the font of the "1" in "10" on the T AD early dial is the serif version as seen in later "R" dials, and the "2" in "20" is unlike any other 6139 dials, R or T.
Notice too the early matte hands are present.


But wait! Another difference! The word Speed-Timer below SEIKO at 12 o'clock is different too.
The T AD dial uses the same font but compressed (like Arial vs Arial Narrow in MS Word).
Notice how it barely extends below "SEIKO" in the T AD dial but goes well beyond in the T version:


So, here is a March 1969 Blue Pogue "6139-600T AD" dial for comparison.


Now the Yellow Dials are a different thing altogether. Here is a Yellow May '69 Dial that features the same compressed font as the early blue 1969 T AD Dials.
Note too that in May 1969 Seiko used the matte hands as shown.


I hope this extra minutia is of interest to our legion of Pogue loyalists. I would use this to gage authenticity of the earliest ones especially as Fake Pogue Dials are emerging on the internet.

Very good info! Thank you for this. However, I have a May 69 blue dial that has the T AD dial. Yet another outlier from Seiko! :)

JSOTC-5 by Russ, on Flickr

I also have a couple of -6010's from Feb and May and they both also have the T AD dial with the unique number fonts.

Feb 69
JSOTC-4 by Russ, on Flickr

May 69 (but this one has had more work done on it than a Kardashian, so take this one with a large grain of salt)
JSOTC-3 by Russ, on Flickr
 

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For what it's worth, here are mine:

Blue 'T' dial from June '69 - 'Speed-Timer' font seems compressed though...


Yellow 'T AD' dial from March '69
 

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Here is my March 1969 6139-6000 TAD Dial (seller's photos) that I picked up earlier this year. Everything is correct including the original Chrome Rim Crystal. I also bought a NOS Early JDM SpeedTimer Bracelet marked 6139-600 to the underside of the end links to be installed on this watch.





 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Yes the CRC (chrome rimmed crystal) is a hallmark of the early ones and so hard to find. My March 1969 has that as does Bbilford83's, we both had them restored by Adrian at VTA. Essential for any early one to look right to my eye now:)

I actually moved a Feb 1969 on to a new home in perfect condition because it did not have the CRC and frankly I am not worried about March vs Feb as long as they are 100% original to the watch. It was 925XXX so a lot higher than the one above.
 

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Here is my March 1969 6139-6000 TAD Dial (seller's photos) that I picked up earlier this year. Everything is correct including the original Chrome Rim Crystal. I also bought a NOS Early JDM SpeedTimer Bracelet marked 6139-600 to the underside of the end links to be installed on this watch.





where did you find these rare bracelets?
 

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Just picked up a march 1969 seiko 6139 6000 with the original chrome rimmed glass and TAD dial. And yes it needs a cleaning.
452240

Anyone got a tip on a original bracelet let me know.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Just picked up a march 1969 seiko 6139 6000 with the original chrome rimmed glass and TAD dial. And yes it needs a cleaning.
View attachment 452240
Anyone got a tip on a original bracelet let me know.
MAJOR Congrats on the CRC still intact !

If it needs a polish to return to service contact Adrian of Vintage Time Australia.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks. The watch just arrived and it still needs a clean but here is the first photo.
I will keep Adrian in mind, thanks for the tip.
Whatever you do, DO NOT throw out that CRC !

If you choose to replace it but don't want to send to Adrian to polish it, it is a rare item and must be preserved !!
 

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Whatever you do, DO NOT throw out that CRC !

If you choose to replace it but don't want to send to Adrian to polish it, it is a rare item and must be preserved !!
Dont worry, i understand the significance of the CRC. I will try cleaning it myself and performing some simply non evasive polishing. If that does not help the watch will go to a friend who can switch the crystal so i can still enjoy the watch while i will ask Adrian to polish it.
 
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