The Watch Site banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,833 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I commented that I'd probably wait until my Planet Ocean started showing signs of needing service (poor timekeeping) rather than preventative servicing every 7 years as recommended by manufacturer. Got this comment in response, wondering what our little group here thinks of this:

"The standard Seiko automatic movements are made for people who don't know mechanical watches and understand the fact that they need to be serviced. Seiko in all their wisdom made the movements pretty much idiot proof that you can run them till they stop running. Fine Swiss watches are not made the same as the Seiko movements in that like a car they need oil changes on a regular basis. If you run the Omega movement till the point it shows it needs servicing, beyond it losing time outside of an expectational amount (-15 seconds a day?), it will run you up a bill for servicing due to the parts needing to be replaced. With the Co-axial you need to have it serviced every 7 - 10 years depending on the amount of wear during that time. Being watch collectors we let our watches sit for periods of time without running so I'd say every 9 to 10 years Co-axial movements need servicing. If a watch is worn almost daily and usually spends no time without running then I'd send it in at the 7-year mark or when it starts to keep time outside of COSC specs. "
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
550 Posts
I don't know enough about watch mechanics that I could judge which is made better. But I suppose that as long as I can get a brand new 7S26 movement for about 60-80$, the only thing that makes sence is to run it down till it is out of tolerance range.
If anyone measured which of the brands would run longer without any service, they might be able to report anything about the quality of the mechanicals.
Any other discussions are just a matter of pride and prejudice.

Regards
Scoobadoo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,833 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Yeah, I've got a few Swiss watches, and they're great (the new PO is staggeringly beautiful I'll admit:) But I tend to prefer hanging with Seiko owners more because the Swiss brand WIS's are a fairly pretentious group. Which is sad in a way because it reinforces stereotypes.

When a watch's not needing periodic service, because it was well designed (as implied re: our beloved Seiko's) is viewed as some sign of inferiority over a watch that requires more frequent care and feeding, then it seems to me someone has missed the point. Sounds a little like the Ferrari (pick a model) vs Honda NSX argument now that I think of it.
 

·
Researcher
Joined
·
5,265 Posts
It depends on what he meant when he said "standard Seiko movements" - as later he says "Fine Swiss watches are not made the same as the Seiko movements in that like a car they need oil changes on a regular basis" (the word "standard" has disappeared), so his post is very ambiguous in meaning.
If he's purely talking the 6r15 and down, then I guess he's not too far wrong, but if he isn't - then he's obviously talking out of his downstairs orifice, as although Seiko's higher end movements are, through excellent design and the use of synthetic lubricants, more tolerant to less servicing - they should also be serviced regularly to ensure long life and stability.
And with the bonus that servicing and parts shouldn't be nose-bleed inducing, unlike their Swiss/Swizz cousins.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
530 Posts
What he's talking about is say comparing a Honda Civic which is a very well engineered car but is what it is to a BMW. It's making an insult in a nice way.

That's how I read it.
 

·
Special Member
Joined
·
7,232 Posts
Not servicing a Rolex until it needs it probably won't cost any thing more than a scheduled service. A new main spring is always included. A worn gear or part is extra but really is that worth paying prematurely?

T
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,830 Posts
The post reminds me of fellows I used to know who would prattle on endlessly about how amazing their vintage 1969 Alfa Romeo (or other European sports cars) were and talk trash about my '69 Camaro. The big difference was that I was normally driving mine while they were fixing theirs. Looked great but not much use sitting in the garage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
578 Posts
Not servicing a Rolex until it needs it probably won't cost any thing more than a scheduled service. A new main spring is always included. A worn gear or part is extra but really is that worth paying prematurely?

T
Exactly, it's a very cleverly done marketing job by the big Swiss, it's locking in a revinue stream from owners, a mech movement is basically the same regardless of maker, tolerances vary of course but what the Swiss fan is sayings their Swiss watches more delicate? BS I say.... A mate of mine has just had a intake Seadweller services at Rolex Uk, £700 later he's very happy with it.. Nice work if you can get it , I would guess the margins on servicing may be higher than on watches ....
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,105 Posts
A worn gear or part is extra but really is that worth paying prematurely?

T
A pair of reverser wheels, the driving wheel between them, and weight axle will set you back almost the street price of an SKX007. If your escape wheel and pallet fork are worn too from your blatant disregard :) for such a precision instrument, you'll pay about the equivalent of the most expensive will. jean's bracelet (>$100) to replace them. These are two sets of higher-priced parts most typically worn when owners are negligent about service intervals.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,105 Posts
But Noah,
Who would bother replacing components when a whole movement costs less than some of its single components?
Sorry for the misunderstanding, those are Rolex parts to which I referred, in response to the idea that waiting until one comes to a grinding halt makes financial sense. A new Rolex movement is closer to $2k-$3k (automatic with calendar), only available to service centers. They don't get replaced Very often obviously, so one has to replace movement parts that are worn to restore proper running and performance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
822 Posts
The discussion regarding 'Swiss v. Japanese watch movement design - which is better?' is a never-ending one that needs to be taken with large handfuls of salt. Knowledgeable and not-so-knowledgeable people make all sorts of contentious statements. In truth, ALL watches with a mechanical component (even those with a quartz oscillator) require cleaning and lubrication from time to time in order to continue functioning the way the manufacturer intended. However, through the use of technological advances in metallurgy and lubrication, service intervals are becoming longer and longer. I leave you with these two facts to ponder:

1. Omega claims that one of the advantages of the co-axial escapement compared to the standard Swiss lever escapement is longer service intervals. So apparently Omega recognize this as a desirable attribute that customers appreciate. It's a step in the right direction -- a direction Seiko and Citizen took decades ago.

2. TAG Heuer's "Swiss Made" cal. 1887 39-jewel chronograph movement is a reworked version of a Seiko movement, probably the 40-jewel 6S37A as used in the Flightmaster Automatic. Apparently this particular Swiss manufacture sees no problem in adopting Japanese design philosophies!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
I've never had a Seiko serviced and I've never had a Seiko fail on me in almost 30 years of owning and wearing Seiko dive watches... and wearing them as they were suppose to be used, as dive watches.

A friend of mine had his Rolex Sub serviced recently. Took 6 weeks and cost him £480.00.

My Orange Monster (2nd Gen) will match his Sub for accuracy day in day out.

If (and its a big if) it ever fails, I can buy 3 new ones of the price of one service of a high end Swiss.

Yes he loves his Sub, but I'm the one feeling smug! :57:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
I've had a Rolex Sub for 31 years without a single service. It still keeps good time and picks up around a minute a month.

Now my wife's Rolex has been in for service twice in 20 years. The last service was in March and it was $700 from the factory for a repair and service. The watch stopped running. There is NOTHING cheap about getting a Rolex serviced at the factory. The other issue I have is they always want to replace a bunch of "stuff" that is cosmetically worn. The estimates are always 2-3 times what the basic service should be. It's almost as if they want you to say 'screw it' and get a new watch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,630 Posts
I have only been collecting older Seiko watches for just under two years now. I have purchased many off eBay in these two years. I am always amazed that so many of these old Seiko that appear to have been so neglected will just 5 minutes of fiddling will start ticking again and keep ticking. I can appreciate the beauty of these high end Swiss watches or Rolex but when any company no matter what the product goes to extreme lengths to ensure that all of their products can only be serviced by them it makes me walk away. The absurd prices they charge and the fact that they are actually breaking trade agreement laws when selling their products here in the US but refusing to allow customers access to replacement parts and service manuals.

In an earlier post a good example was made. Just like Ferrari Lamborghini and these other 200K cars frequency that servicing is required and the cost is just stupid. I worked turning wrenches for 30 years. I saw some of the costs. Many cars with less than 5k miles on them and they had already had wracked up thousands of dollars worth of bills.

I always said if I ever had so much money that I never had to even count it I would own things like a Ferrari or a 20k Rolex. Until that day I will just enjoy by 2005 BMW convertible with the sport package. The car is 10 years old and so far the only parts I have replaced are a power steering hose and the coolant overflow bottle. Oil change gas, tires and GO!

Michael
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top