The Watch Site banner

21 - 40 of 69 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,581 Posts
I would say that's not the best way to tell in all honesty, for me. Quite often with Seiko lume you see a very appealing, textured, and sometimes uneven application.

The balance of tones between the hands and dial and the somewhat Seiko-esque matt look and texture I'd say that is original. Next would be to test lume brightness and longevity of glow. It should glow, albeit not for long and not very bright,.depending on age. That said I've had 7C43s from 1987 that barely glow, to 6309 HK dials that glow pretty bright and for a fair while longer. Both original and both around the same date of manufacture. Just different applications and thickness and products...possibly...

A relume that tends to mimic an aged watch will normally use pigments and paints which results in a less textured finish and either won't glow at all...or if using some lume as a base it will glow for longer, albeit slightly dimmer.
It depends...
Ultimately it's bloody hard to know for sure! :)

For instance, relume or not relumed?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,496 Posts


Fake, right?

Seller was shifting these on and I bought one and subsequently cancelled....seller took 2 weeks to refund but probably something lost in translation...

Anyway glad I'm not into these so much as this is really quite a mess isn't it!
The pristine, new looking packets are a giveaway too (aside from the font on them)

That seller is/was selling a few different ‘NOS’ parts (well there was two on eBay, one in Australia and one in a European country IIRC). Pogue crystals etc. I had someone contact me saying they’d bought one and I told him to get a refund as it was fake, didn’t have a clue as it was ‘NOS in packet’ and reassuringly expensive too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,581 Posts
Yup I had an incling and then thought screw it....could be wrong....but literally a minute later I asked to cancel. ...But I thought that was fair enough instead of returns and blah....Anyway glad I didn't buy it ...and yes he has a lot of stuff....and I wonder if also an Australian seller that seems to have them now are originals....packet was different but....

I have two 320W34 packets and about 6 320W10 packets for 6309 and 6105 crystals. I could stick some Klein repros in them and make some quick cash! Wouldn't surprise me if this is happening quite regularly?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,581 Posts
Just to add....for me, unless the packet is sealed...or of course it's a known known that the particular part is not faked or at least faked badly....then I would tend to treat with much more scepticism.

Here are two sealed 320W10 6105 crystals that I can be 100% sure on. The rest....hmm.


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
I would say that's not the best way to tell in all honesty, for me. Quite often with Seiko lume you see a very appealing, textured, and sometimes uneven application.

The balance of tones between the hands and dial and the somewhat Seiko-esque matt look and texture I'd say that is original. Next would be to test lume brightness and longevity of glow. It should glow, albeit not for long and not very bright,.depending on age. That said I've had 7C43s from 1987 that barely glow, to 6309 HK dials that glow pretty bright and for a fair while longer. Both original and both around the same date of manufacture. Just different applications and thickness and products...possibly...

A relume that tends to mimic an aged watch will normally use pigments and paints which results in a less textured finish and either won't glow at all...or if using some lume as a base it will glow for longer, albeit slightly dimmer.
It depends...
Ultimately it's bloody hard to know for sure! :)

For instance, relume or not relumed?

Thanks, Guy. I would guess the dial in your pic is relumed. The grey color seems suspicious. If it was naturally aged, I would think the greying petina would not be so perfectly even. But again, I'm a total novice when it comes to vintage watches, watchmaking, and restoration, so my opinion is little more than UNeducated guessing. :confused:

Any more thoughts about the 6005 in my OP? It's up for sale on the Bay right now and I have a strong itch to bid on it. :grin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,581 Posts
Correct, here in slightly different light.


And an original on Duncan's bench which I seem to remember trying to mimic instead of crisp white.



As for the 6139 in your post, well to me it looks good and likely original lume.... but I'm not too well versed in these. Hands and dial and caseback all seem to match with what I'd expect. Jon and Tom and Jim etc are your guys to chime in
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
295 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
What do you think about this 6005?

It looks correct to my novice eye (although the dial appears to have been relumed), but I defer to the experts....
It looks good to me, too - bezel, chapter ring, bracelet all look to be kosher, the caseback stacks up and the dial is original. If it's relumed then it's been done pretty well and you have to assume it was done because the old lume was rotten.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
381 Posts
Correct, here in slightly different light.





And an original on Duncan's bench which I seem to remember trying to mimic instead of crisp white.







As for the 6139 in your post, well to me it looks good and likely original lume.... but I'm not too well versed in these. Hands and dial and caseback all seem to match with what I'd expect. Jon and Tom and Jim etc are your guys to chime in
Off topic but that dial is mesmerising. Feel like you just want to dive in. Maybe I should start a business selling pools designed around classic Seiko chrono's!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,496 Posts
Guy, I’d say people could even be getting generic parts house crystals but more likely the hardlex (supposed) replicas like the ones selling on eBay in the US.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,471 Posts
I pray this post will not prove to be laden with bovine defecation. If so please excuse. Lord knows we have seen too much of that lately. Posting out of genuine curiosity as I purchased one exactly like it here on SCWF and it adorns my SpeedTimer -6031 now for what I consider an upgrade, but something has been bugging me since I got it. Now would the time to ask. So here goes:

I agree to it being a genuine -603X bezel above. Proper fonts and spacing, envelope and all that. FYI I purchased one just like that. Yet it has an interesting feature that I want to discuss - the "box under 60".

Pogue lore says this should supposedly be sign of a "newer Pepsi Pogue" bezel. Maybe introduced in 1974 or 1975 I seem to recall. Somebody chime in there.

I thought the last RESISTANT 6139-6032 using the coke bezel was produced generally 1973-ish but again I am no expert. Happy for a learned case back-tologist to jump in with proper facts.

So if -6032's production did indeed end before the accepted production dates when boxes started to appear under the 60 marker of pepsi style bezels, that would be interesting.

Ah, so much to learn ! So much to contemplate !

Back on the original topic of this thread:


From what I can surmise the later outer Pepsi bezels with the box under to 60 marker appeared roughly around 76'. One additional fact to mention is that the shade of blue also changed to a lighter shade from the earlier bezels.



I would have to also surmise that during the same time frame, any of the new replacement 6139-603X Coke bezels that were being made as service replacement parts, would also have the box under the 60 marker.


When it comes to the earlier, Pre-76', Pepsi bezels, one certain way to tell if a bezel is original "without" worrying about fonts and spacing is to check the color of the blue area. The earlier, original bezels, up to roughly 76', all used the "Darker" blue. No aftermarket bezels have the "Darker Blue".



With that in mind, Any lighter colored blue bezels "without" the box under the 60 marker, stand a higher chance of being aftermarket.


When it comes to the later, lighter blue bezels with the box under the 60 marker, all bets are off. These can be the latest aftermarket bezels in which most of the known "signs" of being aftermarket, have been corrected.


Darker Blue Bezel, No Box.



Lighter Blue Bezel, With Box.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,496 Posts
It’s amazing how dark the bezels were too, I have a NOS one and it’s almost a dark purple/blue when it’s never seen sun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,610 Posts
Sorry to continue. I believe both bezels are completely original per a topic I started a little bit ago. Sorry for the pic repost and average pictures.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
21 - 40 of 69 Posts
Top