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Discussion Starter #1
I love seikos & think there are excellent values, but when I see Sumos going for $450, and the old SS Samurais going for $400 something is wrong. I remember when you could get a Quartz Tuna for $325, something is wrong here with all the large price hikes, just cause something is discontinued does not mean the price should double or triple :(
Best rgds Bill
 

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Supply and demand, it's as simple as that. But I do wish I had bought a Tuna when they were less expensive. :mad:

Mike
 

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I hear you on the standard SS Samurai. IMHO those are still less than $300 watches. The Sumo on the other hand, at $450, IIRC, is slightly under it's MSRP.
 

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Respectfully, your argument is missing the boat in a couple of key aspects:


1) The Sumo is a Japan market only watch. It is a mid-market diver timepiece with excellent fit/finish and a well regarded in-house mechanical caliber, the 6r15, which hacks, hand winds, has a 50 hour power reserve and pretty respectable, COSC like accuracy right out of the box. From that perspective, less than USD $500 for a watch of that caliber strikes me as a bargain. Please show me a Seiko mechanical diver (Or any Seiko mechanical watch of similar quality) from the official US Seiko catalog that even begins to approach the finish and quality of the Sumo.... You'll find none I am afraid.


Keep in mind also, that the 6r15 movement is not currently offered on ANY export Seiko mechanical watches at present. If you want a 6r15 Seiko, you have no choice but to order it from Japan.


2) Watches in Japan are more expensive than anywhere else in the world. But their finish and quality is also a notch or two above export versions of similar models. Also the Dollar vs Yen exchange rates situation doesn't help us either but the Dollar has gained a little ground against the JPY in the last month or so.




Also Seiko is going upmarket and some of their newer pieces exhibit a higher degree of finish quality.


Unfortunately, the vast majority of Americans when they think of Seiko, they think of Kinetic and quartz "mediocre" mall offerings and have no idea or exposure to their finest pieces from the Japan domestic market or their luxury lines like Grand Seiko.


I am sure you would cringe at the price tags of the recently released Seiko Anantas. The cheapest Ananta automatic starts at $2,000 all the way up to $6,400 for the Spring Drive Chronograph.


The sad reality is that fine Seiko mechanical watches like the Spirit and SARB series would not sell well in the USA. The vast majority of people doesn't know anything about watches, lack appreciation for well made mechanical movements and would bark at the thought of paying $500 for a Seiko SARB dress mechanical watch. If a SARB or Sumo diver had the "Swiss made" at the bottom of the dial, rest assured that those watches would easily be double or triple their suggested retail values.


Prior I used to think that Seiko's upmarket drive was misguided. But after buying a couple of Japan market Seiko SARB mechanical watches and 2 new Anantas, my perception on their strategy has changed 360 degrees.
 

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Isthmus said:
I hear you on the standard SS Samurai. IMHO those are still less than $300 watches. The Sumo on the other hand, at $450, IIRC, is slightly under it's MSRP.

Depends where you go. A fishing hole not too far from home has left over SS Samurais for well under $250, NOS.
 

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bxa67 said:
I love seikos & think there are excellent values, but when I see Sumos going for $450, and the old SS Samurais going for $400 something is wrong. I remember when you could get a Quartz Tuna for $325, something is wrong here with all the large price hikes, just cause something is discontinued does not mean the price should double or triple :(
Best rgds Bill

Its called desirability among collectors. Used Samurais, specially the JDM Prospex Ti ones, are fetching very good resale values. I suspect the same will take place when Seiko discontinues the Sumo in Japan.


Low supply in the used market + High demand = solid resale values.
 

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Minidriver- Your reply # 4 is so spot on. Loved it. I don't know Sh*& but I do know that reply rocked! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well I agreed that the higher end seikos are excellent/Rock, so a 2K seiko spring drive chrono etc I have no problem, it just the lower basic watch prices have risen so much, regardless of the reason the cost increase this is my issue. I think if Seiko monsters rise in price to $300 2nd hand then all others will have sky rocketed. Please do not get me wrong Seiko makes excellent watches, but if I look at Lets say citizen watches, I have not seen a similar rise in used citizen watches. hmmm best rgds to all
 

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Not completely true....I can think of ONE watch made by a company other than SEIKO that offers that movement, brand new from SII as it's heart, and exports to every country worldwide ;)


minidriver said:
Respectfully, your argument is missing the boat in a couple of key aspects:


1) The Sumo is a Japan market only watch. It is a mid-market diver timepiece with excellent fit/finish and a well regarded in-house mechanical caliber, the 6r15, which hacks, hand winds, has a 50 hour power reserve and pretty respectable, COSC like accuracy right out of the box. From that perspective, less than USD $500 for a watch of that caliber strikes me as a bargain. Please show me a Seiko mechanical diver (Or any Seiko mechanical watch of similar quality) from the official US Seiko catalog that even begins to approach the finish and quality of the Sumo.... You'll find none I am afraid.


Keep in mind also, that the 6r15 movement is not currently offered on ANY export Seiko mechanical watches at present. If you want a 6r15 Seiko, you have no choice but to order it from Japan.


2) Watches in Japan are more expensive than anywhere else in the world. But their finish and quality is also a notch or two above export versions of similar models. Also the Dollar vs Yen exchange rates situation doesn't help us either but the Dollar has gained a little ground against the JPY in the last month or so.




Also Seiko is going upmarket and some of their newer pieces exhibit a higher degree of finish quality.


Unfortunately, the vast majority of Americans when they think of Seiko, they think of Kinetic and quartz "mediocre" mall offerings and have no idea or exposure to their finest pieces from the Japan domestic market or their luxury lines like Grand Seiko.


I am sure you would cringe at the price tags of the recently released Seiko Anantas. The cheapest Ananta automatic starts at $2,000 all the way up to $6,400 for the Spring Drive Chronograph.


The sad reality is that fine Seiko mechanical watches like the Spirit and SARB series would not sell well in the USA. The vast majority of people doesn't know anything about watches, lack appreciation for well made mechanical movements and would bark at the thought of paying $500 for a Seiko SARB dress mechanical watch. If a SARB or Sumo diver had the "Swiss made" at the bottom of the dial, rest assured that those watches would easily be double or triple their suggested retail values.


Prior I used to think that Seiko's upmarket drive was misguided. But after buying a couple of Japan market Seiko SARB mechanical watches and 2 new Anantas, my perception on their strategy has changed 360 degrees.
 

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bxa67 said:
I love seikos & think there are excellent values, but when I see Sumos going for $450, and the old SS Samurais going for $400 something is wrong. I remember when you could get a Quartz Tuna for $325, something is wrong here with all the large price hikes, just cause something is discontinued does not mean the price should double or triple :(
Best rgds Bill
I haven't seen any SS Sammies going for $400 yet, Bill - Ti Sammies, yes. But I think the important question is will these current prices hold? If so, then it really doesn't matter too much to us collectors what we pay, because typically we're buying a watch, holding it for a year or two and then selling. If that's the case, it matters very little if you're paying $200 or $300 - you're going to get most of your money back anyway (provided you're not buying at retail).

Can you say that about Invictas? ;D
 

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minidriver said:
Respectfully, your argument is missing the boat in a couple of key aspects:


1) The Sumo is a Japan market only watch. It is a mid-market diver timepiece with excellent fit/finish and a well regarded in-house mechanical caliber, the 6r15, which hacks, hand winds, has a 50 hour power reserve and pretty respectable, COSC like accuracy right out of the box. From that perspective, less than USD $500 for a watch of that caliber strikes me as a bargain. Please show me a Seiko mechanical diver (Or any Seiko mechanical watch of similar quality) from the official US Seiko catalog that even begins to approach the finish and quality of the Sumo.... You'll find none I am afraid.


Keep in mind also, that the 6r15 movement is not currently offered on ANY export Seiko mechanical watches at present. If you want a 6r15 Seiko, you have no choice but to order it from Japan.


2) Watches in Japan are more expensive than anywhere else in the world. But their finish and quality is also a notch or two above export versions of similar models. Also the Dollar vs Yen exchange rates situation doesn't help us either but the Dollar has gained a little ground against the JPY in the last month or so.




Also Seiko is going upmarket and some of their newer pieces exhibit a higher degree of finish quality.


Unfortunately, the vast majority of Americans when they think of Seiko, they think of Kinetic and quartz "mediocre" mall offerings and have no idea or exposure to their finest pieces from the Japan domestic market or their luxury lines like Grand Seiko.


I am sure you would cringe at the price tags of the recently released Seiko Anantas. The cheapest Ananta automatic starts at $2,000 all the way up to $6,400 for the Spring Drive Chronograph.


The sad reality is that fine Seiko mechanical watches like the Spirit and SARB series would not sell well in the USA. The vast majority of people doesn't know anything about watches, lack appreciation for well made mechanical movements and would bark at the thought of paying $500 for a Seiko SARB dress mechanical watch. If a SARB or Sumo diver had the "Swiss made" at the bottom of the dial, rest assured that those watches would easily be double or triple their suggested retail values.


Prior I used to think that Seiko's upmarket drive was misguided. But after buying a couple of Japan market Seiko SARB mechanical watches and 2 new Anantas, my perception on their strategy has changed 360 degrees.
Good points. Regarding #2, could that mean that my SKX009J's finish is better than the K-version of the same model? I'd like to see comparison shots of the K's versus the J's (in some other post, of course).

Cheers, mate.
 

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seikodiver4ever said:
Good points. Regarding #2, could that mean that my SKX009J's finish is better than the K-version of the same model? I'd like to see comparison shots of the K's versus the J's (in some other post, of course).

Cheers, mate.
No difference whatsoever.
 
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