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Discussion Starter #1
6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

My new 6139 came in today!


Actually, it was a huge watch day - everything came in. My new silver-dialed -6002 arrived, my new 6106 70m sport diver, plus other stuff. Busy evening, as you can imagine.


Anyway, the 6139 transitional came in. Techno, you were right - it has a 6139A movement in it. It also has a servicing mark inside the back, a multi-digit deal starting with "DE". The movement is beautiful, the seals a little stiff, a few marks on the dial, the body in original polish. I took her apart, cleaned the body, removed the Speidel Twist-o-Flex that was on it, put in a new crystal, re-assembled, and here we are! The second hand is a little funky too - it has a curve to it for some reason.











And also my new Seiko 6139-6002 came in as well - needs new hands and a relume, but otherwise is amazingly stock including the beautiful Steelux bracelet (all the extra links are there!)







But check THIS out - I popped the back, and look - it used to have a 6139A designation on that winder base, but it was removed and replaced with a "B". Anyone ever seen that before?


 

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Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

Nice watches Spencer, they look pretty sharp. I love the stelux bracelet on my silver, it is just so comfortable and moves in all the right ways.


Never seen that mark before but given how it is done, I wonder if Seiko were just trying to use up a bunch of A bridges when they transitioned to the bigger clutch mechanism B version. Or maybe the whole mechanism for the clutch was replaced during service and this was done then to indicate to anybody looking in the future that this had been done. What is odd though is that I would guestimate the year on that Silver one to be later than '72/'73 given the lack of resist markings which seems to be later than some known resist dial versions that came with B movements stock.


By the way, let me check my parts bin as I may have a better set of hour and minute hands if you need them, I am definitely not sure though as I know I already need to use my NOS set for my 6000 SpeedTimer and another mint set I have for my silver model as it suffered the same fate as yours. I'll look when I am at home.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

nice, that'd be great! Thanks.


I think your first theory is correct - they probably had a bunch of extra "A" bridges and rather than throw them away they ran them through a re-marking process and threw them in the bin with the "B" bridges. Problem solved. Interesting though that if this is true, that Seiko would take the time to save a few pennies this way.


Maybe your second theory was correct, after all...
 

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Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

To my understanding, 6139A movt the engraving is red/orange in colour. i haven't seen your case.
Also, i would doubt if transit model have notch case. Proof - proof case ok. Mine research showed notch case existed no later than 1970. Yours might be the 1st one I see.
 

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Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

tc1234567 said:
To my understanding, 6139A movt the engraving is red/orange in colour. i haven't seen your case.
Also, i would doubt if transit model have notch case. Proof - proof case ok. Mine research showed notch case existed no later than 1970. Yours might be the 1st one I see.
Early 6139 Speed-Timer movements (ones with 21j) are painted. The 17j movements, whether 6139A or 6139B, are not.

I have seen several winding bridges that Seiko seems to have "converted" from 6139A to 6139B. This makes sense because these parts are completely interchangeable.

Don't see too many of those silver 6139-600*s...congrats!

The inscription inside the caseback likely explains the non-correct seconds hand. And I think a notched case would be correct for March, 1970. ---A
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

TC: in the other "transitional" thread we have pictoral examples of I think four different transitionals owned by members of this forum currently; all "Resist" marked with 6139A movements (none have painted movements), all in notched cases. All date from March '70 to November '70 if memory serves. But the best proof is of course my magazine ad from 1970 that shows this exact model, "Resist" marked, with a notched case. See below.

Cobra, yeah, we don't see a lot of the silver dialed -600x models! I had to jump on this one listed at Timezone, out of Australia. I can't remember the last time I saw one for sale on El Flayo


 

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Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

I finally had some leisure time to gather a few photo's of my notched case resist 6139-6009 from March of 70'. It also contains the early resist case back which displays "resist" rather then "resistant". I also have a notched case proof-proof from Feb of 70' which leads me to believe that the change over from proof to resist took place between Feb and March of 70'.







 

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

Wow, only 323 units away from mine! I wonder how many days are between these two - they're brothers!
 

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Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

sorry Spencer. I am wrong.
After checking my photos, there is one markerd " 6139-6009 resist, notch #070820"
So, Resist/transit model in 1970 can have notch case. Sorry. We learn !
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

tc1234567 said:
[size=1.45em]sorry Spencer. I am wrong.
[size=1.45em]After checking my photos, there is one markerd " [size=1.45em]6139-6009 resist, notch #070820"
[size=1.45em]So, Resist/transit model in 1970 can have notch case. [size=1.45em]Sorry. We learn !



after long experience, I generally can state with authority that I don't know a lot. I find this is more true every day.


As for the "Resist" / notched case thing, the advertisement above is the best piece of proof in the world (above and beyond the four examples currently owned by forum members).
 

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Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

I don't think that there was a particular day where Seiko decided to stop using the notched cases. I think the decision was made to quit notching them sometime in early or mid 1970, and Seiko used the cases they already had until they ran out. They seem to have run out by early 1971, and everything was notchless from early 1971 to 1979. I suspect that the notch was included in the original design to facilitate rotating the crown (so you could use your index finger and your thumb), but was abandoned because it wasn't really necessary and ruined the lines of the case.

When I am looking at one of these and I see a notched case, I am willing to accept a 1969, 1970 or first-quarter 1971 serial number and still consider the case original to the watch. When I see one from early 1971 on, I am suspect. And the reverse is true...when I see a 1969 or 1970 case without the notch, I am also suspect. But that's just me... ---A
 

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Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

Thats exactly how I feel. I also am suspect of the originality of any of these that that have a resist dial after 1973..

Cobrajet25 said:
When I am looking at one of these and I see a notched case, I am willing to accept a 1969, 1970 or first-quarter 1971 serial number and still consider the case original to the watch. When I see one from early 1971 on, I am suspect. And the reverse is true...when I see a 1969 or 1970 case without the notch, I am also suspect. But that's just me... ---A
 

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Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

Technoman said:
Thats exactly how I feel. I also am suspect of the originality of any of these that that have a resist dial after 1973..
Agreed. ---A
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

Technoman said:
Thats exactly how I feel. I also am suspect of the originality of any of these that that have a resist dial after 1973..

We should start a "what's your latest/earliest "Resist" dial" thread - my most recent acquisition, the 6106-6059 70m Sport diver, is April of '69 and it's a Resist/Resist, with a blister-back case back. I'm amazed that something so early wouldn't be Proof/Proof.
 

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Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

If only to serve the confusion, here is the caseback of a proof/proof 6139-6000 that does not have a notched case and is dated April 1970!!





With Seiko, you just never REALLY know....
 

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Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

More data...

I went through some of my 6139s and found the following notched cases:

Resist/Resist, November 1969, -6009 case number
R/R, 3/70, -6009
R/R, 11/69, -6009
R/R, 6/70, -6009
Proof/Resist, 5/70, -6009
Proof/Proof, 1/70, -6000
P/P, 1/70, -6000
P/P, 2/70, -6000
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

Wow, so it appears that -6009s went Resist/Resist way earlier than -6000 models.
 

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Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

6009's was one of the non Japanese market designations..

Spencer said:
Wow, so it appears that -6009s went Resist/Resist way earlier than -6000 models.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

Technoman said:
6009's was one of the non Japanese market designations..

So the brass at Seiko decided to jump ahead of the U.S. law change on watches going to the States?


and another question - does anyone know about this stuff we're finding out? I mean, are we the first people to start compiling this info? Should we make an effort to permanently document this for research purposes? Seiko watches are becoming increasingly valuable and collectible - there are going to be plenty of collectors who will be interested in this information.
 

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Re: 6139-6009 "Resist" Transitional (and some more "A" versus "B" info"

Seiko made the transition earlier on many of the models that were designated for the US yes.
 
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