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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, just practicing my newbie fettling skills. Picked up a working 6119 for lunch money.It was way out of timing etc, but the wheels were turning so to speak. Gave it all a good clean, not expecting miracles but hopefully I would be able to get it close to regulation. It now works but once I tighten the balance cock down it stops . No way need close to any TG result. I replaced the whole balance with a known accurate one and still have the same problem.
So my question is do you think its the escapement side of the movement that is causing this to to happen? Or something else maybe.
I find the fault finding side of watch fettling the most difficult . But I suppose is all part of the learning curve .
Thanks for viewing Cheers Tony
 

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Hi Tony,

Don't be put off, part of the learning curve.

Did you remove the lower diashock jewel for cleaning? Insufficient end shake would certainly stop or slow the balance. The end stones in the diashock are cupped and need to go back in the right way round, with a tiny drop of oil. I use an auto oiler just for this purpose.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply. I did clean up the the lower jewel added a drop of oil.
The diashock jewel is in 2 parts, is the top one of the two flat both side and can be put in either way. I don't have a scope to check that out.
 

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Hi all, just practicing my newbie fettling skills. Picked up a working 6119 for lunch money.It was way out of timing etc, but the wheels were turning so to speak. Gave it all a good clean, not expecting miracles but hopefully I would be able to get it close to regulation. It now works but once I tighten the balance cock down it stops . No way need close to any TG result. I replaced the whole balance with a known accurate one and still have the same problem.
So my question is do you think its the escapement side of the movement that is causing this to to happen? Or something else maybe.
I find the fault finding side of watch fettling the most difficult . But I suppose is all part of the learning curve .
Thanks for viewing Cheers Tony
Does the balance swing if the movement is turned up-side down?
if not, I would suggest the end-stones on the diashocks are inserted upside-down. Flat face should be facing inwards. Easy to spot using a reflection.

Inserting one of then dome-side in will reduce endshake to the point that it may stop the balance swinging.

:)
Callum
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Callum, are you say the the stone which interact with the locking ring has a flat side and a dome side. If so this may be my problem as I thought it was flat both sides.
 

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I have a scope, but as Callum has rightly said due to the convex surface the reflections are different one side to another. There are some examples on YouTube from memory.

You have done well getting them out / in without losing them. Holding the little sods with tweezers without flying off I personally found a challenge.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I being using rodico and a toothpick. No tweezers anywhere near them. So I pull the stones out and check. I also did the balance diashock so will have to check that out too.
 

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Really high probability it's the lower (or the upper) diashock jewel being installed upside down.

You can tell which side is convex or flat buy their reflection when observing under magnification. I wish I was at the bench now so I can describe it better. I think when the flat side is up it will have a very even mat finish and if you tilt it it should reflect light just like a mirror and the entire surface will reflect evenly, but convex side up you can see the distorted reflections of the lights in the room.

Don't bother oiling them until you can figure which side is flat and you can get the balance running properly.
 

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Also, practice picking them up with your tweezers, but before you do that make sure you have tuned them up. This is an excellent video....

 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks all, I fiddled around with the lower jewel a couple of times. Now the balance works when I turn the watch upside down.But just about stops when I turn it back. Anyway I've had enough for today ,will tackle it again tomorrow and also watch the video Dan linked. I don't give in easy ,so onwards and upwards tomorrow. Thanks Tony.
 

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Also if the pallet bridge screw is the problem you can put the movement very close to your ear when it is running so you can clearly hear it ticking away, and then you slowly tip it over and you can hear the balance wheel hitting the screw head before it stops!
 

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Check for any wobble on the balance wheel itself. As it rotates, if the balance wheel is bent or out of true, it can rub on the upper train bridge or the pallet cock and the balance will stop. Too much end shake or too little end shake on the balance could be an issue. I agree with others about inspecting and making sure the diashock jewel settings are properly cleaned, serviced, and assembled. Sometimes folks inadvertently swap the upper and lower diashock jewels which can cause issues. Keep the calendar side parts separated from the movement side parts during disassembly, cleaning, and re-assembly.
 

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Check for any wobble on the balance wheel itself. As it rotates, if the balance wheel is bent or out of true, it can rub on the upper train bridge or the pallet cock and the balance will stop. Too much end shake or too little end shake on the balance could be an issue. I agree with others about inspecting and making sure the diashock jewel settings are properly cleaned, serviced, and assembled. Sometimes folks inadvertently swap the upper and lower diashock jewels which can cause issues. Keep the calendar side parts separated from the movement side parts during disassembly, cleaning, and re-assembly.
I've definitely been caught out with the diashock jewels being different top and bottom. With my limited experience with watch servicing I don't know how I could ever be so blasé as to assume they were the same. I started to check the parts list to see but now I just clean them separately to remove any doubt. As Dan once pointed out to me, sometimes it's just best to swap a balance out (certainly I've found this to be good advice and always have some spares)

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

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Generally very good advice to respect upper and lower jewels of the balance (though you’re trusting the last person to have not mixed them up!), but in this specific case, all variations of the 6119 use the same part number for upper and lower for diashock hole and cap jewels.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Update, had the watch upside down on the TG all night and it didn't stop.Right up stopped straight away . The balance wheel was catching on the mainplate in that position. So I serviced the balance top diashock again as well as the bottom one . Seemed to do the the trick just about. not going any further with it as its a only a practice watch and the hairspring isn't in a very good order so I'll put all back together and put in my spares drawer. One one thing out of the exercise is I'm now a dab hand at putting the diashock clip back in . So some skills learnt and also I may have over oiled the stones.
Thanks again for all the replies with advice, tips and passing on the knowledge.
Cheers Tony.
 
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