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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-08-2019 10:13 PM
Spilled Fluids
Quote:
Originally Posted by bk_lake View Post
Beware of the Mumbai specials. Many are a 6309 with a 6349 marked bridge. 1 of the 5 I purchased was actually a 6349. I think I got another real one from Ramon but got a few duds there too.
Yep, they are easy to spot. The bridges are shiny and new looking with etched text instead of stamped text.
08-08-2019 09:55 PM
bk_lake Beware of the Mumbai specials. Many are a 6309 with a 6349 marked bridge. 1 of the 5 I purchased was actually a 6349. I think I got another real one from Ramon but got a few duds there too.
08-08-2019 05:42 PM
borgsauce
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilled Fluids View Post
The only times I've seen excessive wear is when the movements have been in continuous use with no servicing. So, the issue is not so much about wear as about lower friction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivorbiggin View Post
Its not about worn bushings on the second and third wheel's , Diafix reduces the side thrust friction allowing better positional accuracy because the pinnion runs on the cap stone.
The 6349 also has a jewel bearing at the lower mainspring arbour port which helps reduce side thust at the mainplate arbour port.
In short you should get better accuracy from a 6349 and less tendancy for the arbour ports to wear oval.
All subject to the correct servicing regime of course.
So less friction from lateral force leading to much more efficiency and as an added bonus less wear. Got it! Also as a bonus you get jeweled lower arbor port. Why isn't the 6349 making headlines?! Lol. Thanks again guys good info, time to harvest.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
08-08-2019 04:42 PM
ivorbiggin Its not about worn bushings on the second and third wheel's , Diafix reduces the side thrust friction allowing better positional accuracy because the pinnion runs on the cap stone.
The 6349 also has a jewel bearing at the lower mainspring arbour port which helps reduce side thust at the mainplate arbour port.
In short you should get better accuracy from a 6349 and less tendancy for the arbour ports to wear oval.
All subject to the correct servicing regime of course.
08-08-2019 04:30 PM
Spilled Fluids
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgsauce View Post
Thanks for clarifying that, which brings me to my next question. I often see most of the issues during servicing is with mainspring arbor ports and perhaps the loose rotors. Is it a common issue to have worn out bushings for the second and third wheel in your experience? I guess what im trying to get at is, will it really matter in the next 20-30 years if most of them would have survived thus far?
The only times I've seen excessive wear is when the movements have been in continuous use with no servicing. So, the issue is not so much about wear as about lower friction.
08-08-2019 03:45 PM
borgsauce
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilled Fluids View Post
The second and third wheels have Diafix jeweling instead of bushings to bring the total up to 21 jewels. There are 2 more which I forget their location which brings the total for the 6349 up to 23 jewels.
The 6319 is at 21 jewels and is also a great movement for swapping into a 6309.

Most of the 6349 watches were distributed in the far East aka humid climates and have long since become piles of rust.

Most of India is a lot drier so that is where we see most of these watches coming from. Fortunately, the Indian puppy mil for watches concentrates on making the outside look beautiful(to their tastes anyway) and only touch the workings if they don't run.

If you don't care what the outside of a watch looks like then the Mumbai specials are often a good source for movements.
Thanks for clarifying that, which brings me to my next question. I often see most of the issues during servicing is with mainspring arbor ports and perhaps the loose rotors. Is it a common issue to have worn out bushings for the second and third wheel in your experience? I guess what im trying to get at is, will it really matter in the next 20-30 years if most of them would have survived thus far?
08-08-2019 03:16 PM
ivorbiggin In my service days hacking was a must.
On many occasions while out on manouvers with the 1st batallion of the Kings own Booziliers we encoutered many wayward publicans calling time several seconds too early.
Might not sound much to you guys, but thats the difference between another pint and a Whisky chaser, and the chance to join the SBS. (Slur Belch and Stagger)
08-07-2019 05:55 PM
seikozen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilled Fluids View Post
There is nothing magical about hacking.

Does it matter if the seconds hand crosses the 12 o'clock position at exactly the same time as the source time? I can keep track just as easily if I note that the seconds hand passes over the 3 or 5 or 9 position at the same moment as the source crosses 12.

If I'm recording the timing, it makes no difference where(when) I note the time; just write it down.

Even if I'm not monitoring it on a chart, it is no more difficult to note the crossing time of the second hand if it is at 12 or 5.

So Hacking is just a crutch.
If hacking is a Crutch? Ill take two The Joy of Diversity, I guess as I look back Its always been a Thing for me, I look at the 6106s in my beginning and It was there ability to Hack that drew me towards them. All Good
08-07-2019 01:29 PM
Katgirl
6349 versus 6309

I used to set my hacking watches to the exact time, but got over it. As long as the time is within the correct minute, I am O.K. with it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
08-07-2019 11:57 AM
Spilled Fluids
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyJ View Post
Because I don't find myself lining up the seconds hand when I wear a watch for a day or two. Notice I did say "mostly", not always, and didn't speak about anyone else!

I like it on a 6105 and 6306 and a 6159 currently. I don't have either of those watches anymore, let alone a 6159.
There is nothing magical about hacking.

Does it matter if the seconds hand crosses the 12 o'clock position at exactly the same time as the source time? I can keep track just as easily if I note that the seconds hand passes over the 3 or 5 or 9 position at the same moment as the source crosses 12.

If I'm recording the timing, it makes no difference where(when) I note the time; just write it down.

Even if I'm not monitoring it on a chart, it is no more difficult to note the crossing time of the second hand if it is at 12 or 5.

So Hacking is just a crutch.
08-07-2019 11:51 AM
Spilled Fluids
Quote:
Originally Posted by 850champion View Post
Thanks Jerry, the equation should therefore read,

Diafix =harder =more durable = longer performance
An additional benefit is that the Diafix keeps lubricant in place longer. Also the pinion ends run on the Diafix cap jewel rather than on the much larger shoulder of a regular jeweled or bushed one. Since there is a much smaller surface area of contact, it only stands to reason that with less friction, the accuracy 'could' be better.
08-07-2019 04:11 AM
GuyJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by seikozen View Post
I was just reading Guys Post .I learn Lots from his Posts, I was surprised to read that hacking was not important to him. It may well be unimportant to Many??

For me Hacking is so important. When I have OEM 6309s or 6105As that do not hack or any other watches I wear that don't hack I feel a bit lost.

I keep daily records of the watches I wear Been that way forever, Enjoy seeing how accurate they are On winders or on my Wrist. Math was not my strong suite: I guess this is why I have a HACKING watch 95% of the time on my wrist, I enjoy charting each day how many seconds I'm off 5-11 secs mostly Slow

It was said the other day when a Post showed a BEAUTIFUL Collection of 6105-811x, 6309-704x and the Poster talked about Bonding with his watches, that they Each had a Different Personality It was nice to Read because Thats how feel about Mine. This is a pic seen many times of the 6309-7049 April 1977 # extra jewels, Hacking kit and Black kanji Day/date My Go to 6309 Often

Because I don't find myself lining up the seconds hand when I wear a watch for a day or two. Notice I did say "mostly", not always, and didn't speak about anyone else!

I like it on a 6105 and 6306 and a 6159 currently. I don't have either of those watches anymore, let alone a 6159.
08-07-2019 02:54 AM
850champion
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke441 View Post
Not accuracy as much as longevity, a jewel will last longer than a bushing. Both a 6309 and a 6349 can be very accurate, but the 6349 might be accurate for a longer amount of time. Hence the reason for using jewels instead of bushings in the 1st place.
Thanks Jerry, the equation should therefore read,

Diafix =harder =more durable = longer performance
08-07-2019 12:01 AM
zeke441
Quote:
Originally Posted by 850champion View Post
Peter, is it correct to say Diafix =less friction = more accuracy (versus one with a metal bushing )
Not accuracy as much as longevity, a jewel will last longer than a bushing. Both a 6309 and a 6349 can be very accurate, but the 6349 might be accurate for a longer amount of time. Hence the reason for using jewels instead of bushings in the 1st place.
08-06-2019 11:56 PM
zeke441
Quote:
Originally Posted by meanoldmanning View Post
Escape and third wheel. Pallet is same for the 6309, 6319 and 6349. I have measurements on the other forum somewhere


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thanks for the clarification, I knew it was 2 parts that differed for the extra jewels in the plate and train bridge.
08-06-2019 11:28 PM
850champion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilled Fluids View Post
The second and third wheels have Diafix jeweling instead of bushings to bring the total up to 21 jewels. There are 2 more which I forget their location which brings the total for the 6349 up to 23 jewels.
The 6319 is at 21 jewels and is also a great movement for swapping into a 6309.

Most of the 6349 watches were distributed in the far East aka humid climates and have long since become piles of rust.

Most of India is a lot drier so that is where we see most of these watches coming from. Fortunately, the Indian puppy mil for watches concentrates on making the outside look beautiful(to their tastes anyway) and only touch the workings if they don't run.

If you don't care what the outside of a watch looks like then the Mumbai specials are often a good source for movements.
Peter, is it correct to say Diafix =less friction = more accuracy (versus one with a metal bushing )
08-06-2019 11:26 PM
850champion
Quote:
Originally Posted by seikozen View Post
I was just reading Guys Post .I learn Lots from his Posts, I was surprised to read that hacking was not important to him. It may well be unimportant to Many??

For me Hacking is so important. When I have OEM 6309s or 6105As that do not hack or any other watches I wear that don't hack I feel a bit lost.

I keep daily records of the watches I wear Been that way forever, Enjoy seeing how accurate they are On winders or on my Wrist. Math was not my strong suite: I guess this is why I have a HACKING watch 95% of the time on my wrist, I enjoy charting each day how many seconds I'm off 5-11 secs mostly Slow

It was said the other day when a Post showed a BEAUTIFUL Collection of 6105-811x, 6309-704x and the Poster talked about Bonding with his watches, that they Each had a Different Personality It was nice to Read because Thats how feel about Mine. This is a pic seen many times of the 6309-7049 April 1977 # extra jewels, Hacking kit and Black kanji Day/date My Go to 6309 Often
Well, if charting accuracy is your personal preference, nothing wrong with that .
There are some interesting questions there - do you chart accuracy on worn and unworn watches? Is there a significant difference in accuracy of the same watch, worn versus unworn?
08-06-2019 11:18 PM
seikozen
6309 hacking

I was just reading Guys Post .I learn Lots from his Posts, I was surprised to read that hacking was not important to him. It may well be unimportant to Many??

For me Hacking is so important. When I have OEM 6309s or 6105As that do not hack or any other watches I wear that don't hack I feel a bit lost.

I keep daily records of the watches I wear Been that way forever, Enjoy seeing how accurate they are On winders or on my Wrist. Math was not my strong suite: I guess this is why I have a HACKING watch 95% of the time on my wrist, I enjoy charting each day how many seconds I'm off 5-11 secs mostly Slow

It was said the other day when a Post showed a BEAUTIFUL Collection of 6105-811x, 6309-704x and the Poster talked about Bonding with his watches, that they Each had a Different Personality It was nice to Read because Thats how feel about Mine. This is a pic seen many times of the 6309-7049 April 1977 # extra jewels, Hacking kit and Black kanji Day/date My Go to 6309 Often
08-06-2019 10:45 PM
Spilled Fluids
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgsauce View Post
Okay hope I don't sound ignorant here, but what exaclty is additionally jeweled in the 6349 which isn't in the 6309?

Edit: And also are these movements only found on the Bombay specials? All my search results show them originating from India.
The second and third wheels have Diafix jeweling instead of bushings to bring the total up to 21 jewels. There are 2 more which I forget their location which brings the total for the 6349 up to 23 jewels.
The 6319 is at 21 jewels and is also a great movement for swapping into a 6309.

Most of the 6349 watches were distributed in the far East aka humid climates and have long since become piles of rust.

Most of India is a lot drier so that is where we see most of these watches coming from. Fortunately, the Indian puppy mil for watches concentrates on making the outside look beautiful(to their tastes anyway) and only touch the workings if they don't run.

If you don't care what the outside of a watch looks like then the Mumbai specials are often a good source for movements.
08-06-2019 10:06 PM
850champion Jerry, Guy, Michael, et. al. , Thanks for the info guys. Will try it this weekend.

Guy - no need for hacking - not much of a premium on punctuality in my part of the world hahaha.
08-06-2019 09:03 PM
Grammarofdesign Well played Michael, Peter and Jerry and Guy - I had a 6349 powered 6309 dress watch a while back the way I got it.


I prefer to upgrade to a 6306 for the hacking but the 6349 with its extra jewels might be a more robust upgrade.
08-06-2019 09:01 PM
borgsauce Okay hope I don't sound ignorant here, but what exaclty is additionally jeweled in the 6349 which isn't in the 6309?

Edit: And also are these movements only found on the Bombay specials? All my search results show them originating from India.
08-06-2019 08:40 PM
GuyJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilled Fluids View Post
Thanks Guy but I'm happy with the watch the way it is. I rotate too much for hacking to be of any benefit
:I was gonna end my tip about using a 6306 bridge by saying "but I find hacking pretty useless mostly"....
08-06-2019 08:36 PM
meanoldmanning
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke441 View Post
Both movements are identical as far as the form factor. The 6349 has extra jewels and requires a different escape wheel and pallet fork. Here's my 6309-7290 mod with a 6349 movement and a 6106 70m dial. It drops right in and is basically an upgraded 6309 movement.



Escape and third wheel. Pallet is same for the 6309, 6319 and 6349. I have measurements on the other forum somewhere


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
08-06-2019 08:35 PM
Spilled Fluids
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyJ View Post
I have a few spare 6309 plates here I am gonna muck about with soon (cut a groove). If you need a hacking lever and 6306 plate just let me know Peter...
Thanks Guy but I'm happy with the watch the way it is. I rotate too much for hacking to be of any benefit
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