Alarm repair question. - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum Ė Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 03-29-2019, 01:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Alarm repair question.

I have a Belle where the alarm goes off every time I pull out the pusher- no matter where the alarm bezel is set. Is that something that is easy to repair? Is it just re-seating the alarm bezel for example? The bezel rotates fine. I still haven't found anyone in US to service my Bells. Thanks.
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Old 03-30-2019, 02:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I have a Belle where the alarm goes off every time I pull out the pusher- no matter where the alarm bezel is set. Is that something that is easy to repair? Is it just re-seating the alarm bezel for example? The bezel rotates fine. I still haven't found anyone in US to service my Bells. Thanks.



It'll be an easy fix but probably needs the dial taken off to re tension the alarm spring or similar
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Old 03-31-2019, 08:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Itís a very common fault. It can be due to wear on a number of parts. The diagram is from the Seiko service manual and shows the section that controls when the alarm will go off.
The alarm hammer will repeatedly hit the sounding spring, until the alarm spring is unwound, unless it is stopped from doing so. There are two ways it can be stopped. At the top right of the diagram, you see the alarm bolt yoke. That is controlled by the alarm button you pull out. If the alarm button is pushed in, the yoke will stop the hammer moving, so the alarm canít go off. If you pull out the alarm button, the yoke is moved out the way and the hammer can now move if the disconnecting leave allows it to.

The diagram shows the section that controls the time the alarm goes off, assuming the alarm button is pulled out. The disconnecting lever will rise when the alarm time comes along, and allow the hammer to move, if the alarm yoke is out the way. The disconnecting lever is pushed up by the disconnecting lever spring. However, the disconnecting lever canít move up and release the hammer until the hour wheel reaches the right rotation compared to the locking wheel. There are three bumps on the hour wheel, that can only fit into the unlocking wheel when they line up, at the alarm time. When they do line up, the hour wheel is pushed up by the disconnecting lever, which releases the hammer and the alarm sounds.
The hour wheel, disconnecting lever or hammer can all wear and mean taht the mechanism canít hold the hammer. Itís very easy to swap a worn part for one that is good if you are stripping the watch already. Spring tension canít cause this fault. You will need to replace at least one part. Its possible other parts could be missing, which could also cause this fault. You really need to strip the whole watch while you are at it. You will be halfway there anyway.

Some alarm faults are tricky. The last one I did which had an alarm fault required the complete movement chassis to be replaced, although it was possible to bodge it temporally. I ended up stripping that one many times to find the fault.

It is far easier to rebuild a watch with little or no lubrication, and it will run quite well to begin with. Too much oil causes no end of faults. Getting exactly the right amount of lubrication is part of the skill you need to rebuild a watch correctly. Most bellmatics Iíve stripped that have been recently rebuilt were not lubricated at all. It causes the alarm parts to wear faster than necessary. Also, if it hasnít been serviced for 50 years, the alarm parts are likely to have no lubrication left anyway.
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Old 04-01-2019, 03:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The parts from the disconnecting lever spring and up are above the sub plate on the mainplate. These control (apart from the pusher) the alarm release.

If the issue is with them and the watch is otherwise going fine it's worth leaving the rest of the watch alone


I've probably overhauled about 30 - 40 Bellmatics in recent years and I'm yet to see one of the alarm parts that is worn enough to need replacing and some of those watches had had a lot of life - even judging by the cases that were so worn I didn't re use them.



I have had to re tension the alarm release spring though which has solved alarm release / not stopping on the alarm shut off button issues.
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Old 04-01-2019, 04:52 AM   #5 (permalink)
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We have completely opposite realities then. There is no alarm release spring. There is no alarm part you can adjust by simply removing the dial. Can you name the part you claim to adjust, using the service manual? Please explain to us how this simple fix works using diagrams out the service manual. We would all appreciate the benefit of your experience, especially me since I have wasted so much time replacing parts.

His alarm button works correctly, it is nothing to do with that. The section that is not working is the section described in the diagram I posted.

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Old 04-02-2019, 04:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
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We have completely opposite realities then. There is no alarm release spring. There is no alarm part you can adjust by simply removing the dial. Can you name the part you claim to adjust, using the service manual? Please explain to us how this simple fix works using diagrams out the service manual. We would all appreciate the benefit of your experience, especially me since I have wasted so much time replacing parts.

His alarm button works correctly, it is nothing to do with that. The section that is not working is the section described in the diagram I posted.





You may have posted a lot of words, a diagram but I've done the work on that many Bells and not replaced alarm parts. I have replaced a few going train parts - balance, etc

You might have your experience.....I have mine
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:16 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzwatchdoctor View Post
You may have posted a lot of words, a diagram but I've done the work on that many Bells and not replaced alarm parts. I have replaced a few going train parts - balance, etc

You might have your experience.....I have mine

Yes we have experience, and then there is the service manual and actual reality where we use words to prove things.



So, you won't name this fictitious spring and identify its name using the service manual? You won't explain how to do this easy fix? You wont explain even using the service manual diagrams which take no time to paste? Even better, use your own photos, I have every part available and can join in to help you with other photos to describe the way things work when you are not being clear enough.


I call it complete BS and you don't understand how the alarm actually works.


Do you have no respect for other people? I know you love to promote your abilities in the hope you get business, but by you saying this is an easy fix, you could lead people into big trouble with sentimental or expensive pieces. A beginner could easily damage his dial and hands for nothing, because he thinks its an easy fix according to a someone who has done 30 to 40 bellmatics and has 25 years of experience as a qualified watchmaker.



Folks, I hope to see an easy fix

"which has solved alarm release / not stopping on the alarm shut off button issues"



Would anyone else care to see this? Let the kiwi know, and maybe he will actually contribute to the forum if enough of us ask him nicely.
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