Part 11 : Crown and stem - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 09-15-2010, 05:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Part 11 : Crown and stem


“Project” 6309 !!
The Crown & Stem.


How to refurbish the 5 piece crown and stem system used on the 6309 divers (and others) now that the movement is out of the case we can start looking at the individual parts to asses what we need to do, I decided on this one that as a final test I am going to get it wet (scary ha ha) so I decided rather than a gasket change I would use a OEM NOS crown but use the existing stems/spring and washer.

.As you know the crown is a five piece set up, crown, male stem, female stem, spring and washer.
· Tools needed tweezers, chuck, pin vice, screw lock and Bergeon 6767 (spring bar removal tool).


· First off take the old stem apart, to do this just press the bottom stem onto the spring and slide it side ways tilting it a little at the same time and take great care not to lose the washer which is in between the bottom stem and the spring.

· Then using the pin vice which you have pushed onto the stem as far as you can and tightened it onto the stem, unscrew the stem out of the crown, it is a normal right handed thread. I have managed to undo all the stems from the crowns this way and never had to resort to using heat, it does help if your pin vice is a quality one as it grips the stem good while not damaging it.

· Now that the stem is free from the old crown I use a little (very little) Truloc 360 on the thread, I just squeeze a little out and dip the end of the stem in it, then just screw the stem into the new crown, again I use my pin vice to hold the stem.

· Last but not least reassembly, I now use a small drill chuck I have to hold the new crown and I use some kitchen towel in the jaws just to prevent any marking, fit the spring and now this is the most important part !! I go out in the garden for a smoke LoL Nerves settled so on we go, I now use the forked end of the spring bar tool to compress the spring so that I can place the washer on top of it and over the stem, now at this point be AWARE that if you release the spring the washer will go into orbit more than likely never to be seen again (now you see why I had a smoke first ha ha) I have already placed the bottom part of the stem in the pin vice and now it is just a case of sliding it on to the top section. I would recommend you familiarise your self with how to assemble the two parts without the spring and washer in position so that you understand how it fits together.

Job done, all that’s left to be done is before final assembly insert some silicone into the crown to help form the seal, the silicone also helps the feel of the screw down crown works a little like a lubricant.


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Old 09-15-2010, 06:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

wow!
did you use the spring bar removal tool to remove the stem from movement? i guess that part goes w/o saying. also, a chuck? i was unaware of the need for a chuck :-[
i have not seen that any where. LoL

your "instructions" are layed out very well. i think if others have different experiences when breaking things down or upon reassembly we should post also?
huh? what do you say guys?
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Quote:
Originally Posted by se7en8n9ne
wow!
did you use the spring bar removal tool to remove the stem from movement? i guess that part goes w/o saying. also, a chuck? i was unaware of the need for a chuck :-[
i have not seen that any where. LoL

your "instructions" are layed out very well. i think if others have different experiences when breaking things down or upon reassembly we should post also?
huh? what do you say guys?
I use a tooth pick to remove the stem from the movement.

I just find the chuck useful as a third hand.

All imput is encouraged so that we can all pick up pointers, me especially !!!
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

That is a great use for an old chuck! As a "Chuck" I am qualified to say so.

As an alternative to pin vice, I found that using a thin blade or needle through the slot in the lower stem like a "T" provided a great means to turn it out of the crown.

On assembly, I was able to hold the crown between my index finger and thumb and then hold the spring in a retracted position with the nail of my index finger, place the washer, then the end of the stem into place.

Chuck
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

I should also note that the gasket for the crown is in a recess on the sides of the crown. I was able to pick the old one out with a needle carefully. It looked very pliable and in good shape so I greased it and replaced it.

Here is a tutorial on gasket replacement: http://www.larrybiggs.net/scwf/index...&id=1161521220
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwood


As an alternative to pin vice, I found that using a thin blade or needle through the slot in the lower stem like a "T" provided a great means to turn it out of the crown.


Chuck
We all have our own methods that work for our selves but I think there is a chance of causing damage to the stem by doing this especially if the top stem part is tight in the crown and the bottom stem is quite delicate.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:25 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

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Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
We all have our own methods that work for our selves but I think there is a chance of causing damage to the stem by doing this especially if the top stem part is tight in the crown and the bottom stem is quite delicate.
Clearly your method is more mechanically sound. My method was out of necessity because I don't have a pin vice. Mine came out very easily with very little torque required. Installation with locktight only required a snugging so again not much torque.

I think if you encountered a lock tighted thread it would be more difficult and potential for damage would be higher.

I have also been eying an old but still serviceable drill in my garage for that chuck idea!
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Old 09-18-2010, 04:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Why do these watches use a two-piece stem?
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Old 09-18-2010, 04:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai_h
Why do these watches use a two-piece stem?
Because of the screw down crown.
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Horror of horrors lost the washer or never had one on the stem. I took the stem apart on a mat and I can't see a washer. How hard are they to replace or make?
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:40 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
Because of the screw down crown.
Yes, that makes perfect sense now. Thanks.
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:23 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Quote:
Originally Posted by satansicle
Horror of horrors lost the washer or never had one on the stem. I took the stem apart on a mat and I can't see a washer. How hard are they to replace or make?
You can still buy them (quite exspensive for what they are) i should imagine making them would be APITA i would have thought that perhaps a washer/tool supplier would sell them for a fraction of the OEM price, i must admit i meant to measure mine when it was off to see if i could get hold of some that would do the job.
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Old 09-19-2010, 04:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

I posted on another forum on how to make stem springs. In one of the pics, there's a shot of the washer I made, and also the dimensions:


http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index...1&#entry572093



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Old 09-20-2010, 02:34 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Quote:
Originally Posted by clockworks
I posted on another forum on how to make stem springs. In one of the pics, there's a shot of the washer I made, and also the dimensions:


http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index...1&#entry572093
Thanks for that, your measurements match the ones I took from the diameter of the crown stem parts. I'll either make a washer or find one somewhere, maybe OFrei.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:25 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

You would of thought a washer of this size could be bought some were for pennies, if any one finds a source please do share
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Old 09-21-2010, 04:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

If I don't really wish to take apart my crown and stem just now, can I simply bung it in the ultrasonic scrubber?

If so, would I have to grease anything afterwards?

How do I tell if the crown gasket needs replacing?
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Old 09-21-2010, 04:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Quote:
Originally Posted by lalanda
If I don't really wish to take apart my crown and stem just now, can I simply bung it in the ultrasonic scrubber?

If so, would I have to grease anything afterwards?

How do I tell if the crown gasket needs replacing?
Yes you can "bung" the whole crown and stem in the ultrasonic to clean it, after cleaning and before assembling the watch again you need to put some sillicone inside the crown to help the gasket.

If you push the crown on the case tube without the movement in and you feel some resistance from the gasket sliding over the tube you will know it is doing "something" whether that something is enough to seal it for diving i wouldent know unless it was properly tested.
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

I bit the bullet and bought a pack of washers, with shipping they cost over £1 each ??? but worth it if you need one


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Old 09-25-2010, 06:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Hey John, where did you find that?
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

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Originally Posted by Arco_10
Hey John, where did you find that?
Check out Cousins Ross.

http://www.cousinsuk.com/
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTigerUK



Well it's good to have the parts number.
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:29 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Hey John
I could only find the washers there ( and that took some doing ) I was unable to see the springs, how about you?

both stems that I disassembled had no washer and one didn't even have a crown gasket
I just thought I might as well change the spring too, but no luck
I have a couple coming from Jonathan K. now though, and a couple of gaskets
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Any source for a excelent quality aftermarket full assembled crown+stem? ( with washer, springs, gaskets,etc )
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Old 09-26-2010, 04:16 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 11 : Crown and stem

Quote:
Originally Posted by shun
Any source for a excelent quality aftermarket full assembled crown+stem? ( with washer, springs, gaskets,etc )
You see them on Ebay from the Philippines but i have never had one in my hand so i can't comment on the quality but i have had there 6105-811X crowns and they are a waste of $$$$.
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