Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools. - Page 2 - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

Guys,
You lost me now (isn't this supposed to be a "back to basics" thing?).
I don't even know what a pin vice is or looks like (btw a pictchure would help in this department)!
What is it supposed to do, apart from I assume, holding tight to some kind of pin?
Cheers,
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:57 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADB
Guys,
You lost me now (isn't this supposed to be a "back to basics" thing?).
I don't even know what a pin vice is or looks like (btw a pictchure would help in this department)!
What is it supposed to do, apart from I assume, holding tight to some kind of pin?
Cheers,
A pin vice is a small 3 Jaw chuck that as you say can hold pins or any small round items like a stem or small diameter drill etc etc, very useful.

[IMG]
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:03 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clockworks
Isn't replacing the crown O-ring one of the hardest jobs on these watches? Or am I thinking about a different model?
Seem to remember reading somewhere about having to punch out a domed washer to remove the gasket.


I got my pin vices second hand from eBay. Most of the modern ones are cheap Far Eastern rubbish. AF should be fine, and I know that Starrett used to be a good make. Are they still good quality?
You may be getting mixed up with the 6105 crowns.

As with all tools the cheapies are cheap and you get what you pay for, my best pin vice is an old "Eclipse" #160 about 40 years old but quality as most tools were back then.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:15 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

You're right - I was getting mixed up with the sprung crown on the 6105.


BTW, if anyone needs a crown, I was surprised to see that Cousins still stock these.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:24 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

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Originally Posted by clockworks



BTW, if anyone needs a crown, I was surprised to see that Cousins still stock these.
Mine came last week from Cousins for this project
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:46 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

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Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
A pin vice is a small 3 Jaw chuck that as you say can hold pins or any small round items like a stem or small diameter drill etc etc, very useful.

[img]
Ah, OK, Thanks John. Live and learn I say...

Cheers,
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:07 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.



Quote:
Originally Posted by clockworks
I got my pin vices second hand from eBay. Most of the modern ones are cheap Far Eastern rubbish. AF should be fine, and I know that Starrett used to be a good make. Are they still good quality?
Your guess would likely be far better than mine Steve! While not a model making man myself (...!), I just read that Starrett was pretty well thought of.. along with Tamiya, which also seems big in the model makers world..



Quote:
Originally Posted by clockworks
BTW, if anyone needs a crown, I was surprised to see that Cousins still stock these.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTigerUK
Mine came last week from Cousins for this project
Aargh! And I on the other hand have still not yet managed to find NOS stems!!

Bah.

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Old 08-04-2010, 04:22 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

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Originally Posted by howie77

Your guess would likely be far better than mine Steve! While not a model making man myself (...!), I just read that Starrett was pretty well thought of.. along with Tamiya, which also seems big in the model makers world..



Aargh! And I on the other hand have still not yet managed to find NOS stems!!

Bah.

Howie
When buying any new watch tools i try to buy Bergeon if i have enough cash if not i wait until i have

I have never come across any new stems either, the springs and washers are still available but you don't often see the stems, i have in the past bought used crowns complete with stems just for the stems.

6309 dress watch stems are still easy to get hold of but no good for the diver but i always like to have a couple of those knocking about as they come in VERY handy when messing about stripping a diver


I felt really guilty getting hold of my NOS crown last week before Cousins perhaps had a rush of orders from guys on this project ???
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Old 08-05-2010, 05:31 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

6309 divers stems are available from eBay, but cost £15 delivered from the Philippines: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MALE-FEMALE-ST...item20b280eb92
Same seller offers the male and female parts individually.
I make my own springs and washers.


I've got 6 pin vices (all different sizes), and they are all made by Eclipse. They came from eBay, secondhand. They are the 4-jaw type, so they can be used for holding both round and square stock.


I don't think that anyone has mentioned possibly the most important "tool" for anyone considering doing more than a one-off watch job - a decent work bench.
I've been struggling, using an office desk and a computer workstation. These are fine for clock work, but a killer when working on watches. I get back, neck and shoulder pains from being hunched over the desk. Proper watchmaker's benches are a lot higher than standard desks - around 900 to 1000mm (3 feet+) Yesterday, I finally decided to do something about it, so started to build a work platform that'll sit on top of my desk.
Pics to follow.....



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Old 08-05-2010, 06:05 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

I know what you mean about height, i use my pc work station but have an extension i put on top of the table to get the height up to one that i am comfortable working at.

I won't use any of the after market stems/crowns from the Philippines as i find the quality (in general) worse than useless, money and lots of time wasted in my experience in the main.
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Old 08-05-2010, 06:15 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

I've only used ETA stems from HK or genuine stems from Cousins. Not tried the Philippines ones myself.


I tried searching for a purpose-built desktop extension, but it seems that no-one makes them, only complete benches at silly money. There must be a market for extensions, as there are plenty of tinkerers and part-time repairers out there who don''t have the space or cash for a dedicated bench.


Do you have a pic of your bench extension?
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:10 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

My "extension" is basically a wooden box about 4 inch x 8inch x 12 inch just gave me what i needed.
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Old 08-05-2010, 08:10 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

I would think it would be good to have an extension that also stored all the tools for the occasional watch work, so you could pick it all up and put it away when not in use.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:53 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

Well, I got my $30 el-cheapo toolkit from Deal Extreme today.


It's pretty basic, the finish on the tools isn't anything special and I can't see myself using the screwdrivers over screwdrivers that I already have...
If anyone is interested I can post some pictures of the items - I know I'm going to have to re-purchase some of these tools again but at least with this I'll see what I use and see how the crap tools fail me and then I'll know what to look for in the good tools ;-)
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:46 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

Just finished my bench extension. The top is an 850x300mm pine shelf, edged in 44x10mm pine strip. The legs are old Ikea dining table legs, cut down to 7.5".




[color=rgb(102, 102, 102)]
[color=#666666][color=rgb(102, 102, 102)]
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:53 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I like that it looks perfect plus storage underneath and so very important IMO opinion is the fact it was cheap, good stuff.

As they say necessity is the mother of invention.
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:05 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

That's a nice, clean workbench!
Now I am very tempted to send you my 6309-7040 and be done with it...

Ok, ok, I'll try to follow up on the original idea, fix it myself, etc.

Cheers,
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:25 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

Thanks for the compliments. The extender gets moved out of the way when I work on clocks or build models, so I have to clear a space to put it back - that's why the main bench looks relatively tidy.
I've got another bench on the other side of the room for "dirty" work. Holds my lathe, drill press, dremel, etc. It's also a nice sturdy bench top for hammering, cutting and filing.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:25 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

Hi,
Just wanted to post a couple of pictures of a Bergeon 4932 tool I got yesterday in the mail, it's their famous case back opening knife, which I believe can also be used to snap bezels off and bezel inserts too:



This tool exudes quality. It comes with a nice tight plastic pouch and should be kept in the pouch when not in use. It is made by Wenger (who also manufacture Swiss knifes) for Bergeon. The blade is fixed, it does not fold back in the handle. This is actually a safety feature in this case, one can't accidentally fold back the blade while working on a watch as this would have a chance of hurting the user and/or destroying the watch being worked on.



And this is the blade, very well shaped and sharp, but no real "edge" that would break off (like the blades of a cutter).
A very nice tool imho. And it is priced so cheaply ($12 shipped) that I don't see any advantage to buying a knock-off.
So do yourself a favor and get the real thing (in case you haven't already), you won't regret it.
Cheers,
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:47 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

As i say Andrew you cant beat quality and why risk injury or damage to your watch for the sake of $12 ? apart from the uses you mention it is also the tool to use for removing the crystal retaining ring.
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:22 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

Yes John I took your advice seriously. I hope to learn how to use this tool over the course of this project, but today I already used it for its original intended purpose, and it works wonders, even in my inexperienced hands.
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Old 08-07-2010, 04:34 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

Cousins want £15 + VAT for that Bergeon case knife!
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:10 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

Quote:
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Cousins want £15 + VAT for that Bergeon case knife!
Mine was purchased through the bay, from Hong Kong, here: http://stores.ebay.fr/id=622563265&s...STRK:MEFSX:SST
Be careful though because they have somewhat ridiculous prices but charge you extra for shipping.
Cheers,
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:36 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

Hi,
While we are on the subject of case openers, just wanted to say that I ended up buying a "NEW SUPER STICKY BALL SCREW BACK WATCH CASE OPENER" because I was jealous of John's shiny blue one.
O:-)
Mine is yellow though, and not shiny, and it cost me $5 - shipped. I have no idea whether it's a real tool or a fake, so I am waiting for it to arrive and I'll report with pictures then.
Cheers,
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:49 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: Part 2: Restore/mod 6309 project: Suggested tools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADB
Hi,
While we are on the subject of case openers, just wanted to say that I ended up buying a "NEW SUPER STICKY BALL SCREW BACK WATCH CASE OPENER" because I was jealous of John's shiny blue one.
O:-)
Mine is yellow though, and not shiny, and it cost me $5 - shipped. I have no idea whether it's a real tool or a fake, so I am waiting for it to arrive and I'll report with pictures then.
Cheers,
Andrew !!!!! tell me your kidding ?? you dident really buy the Yellow one did you ????? :-\
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