Perplexing winding/barrel issue 7002 - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Perplexing winding/barrel issue 7002

Hello all,

On the bench this week is a 7002-700J from Ramon and I'm having an issue that I can't figure out...though it may be simple.

Strong amplitude, zero to .1 beat error and regulated well but when I engage the second reduction winding wheel and pawl lever it winds properly but then the click seems to not engage. (does that even make sense).

It will wind fully and properly when wound by the barrel manually but when the auto-winding is engaged (second reduction wheel installed) it binds up the mainspring barrel/click.

I replaced barrels, replaced the second reduction wheel, the pawl lever looks great and the barrel arbor doesn't seem all that worn.

Any thoughts?

Scott
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:26 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Maybe The bridge Bush is worn and barrel is tilting when wound and binding on click spring.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
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That's plausible indeed. The click spring becomes mobile, in other words during this state it can be moved with tweezer tips so the barrel must be holding itself in place without the click.

Perhaps I will replace the bridge and see if it remedy's this situation.
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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That's plausible indeed. The click spring becomes mobile, in other words during this state it can be moved with tweezer tips so the barrel must be holding itself in place without the click.

Perhaps I will replace the bridge and see if it remedy's this situation.
No need to replace the whole bridge for the bushing. They simply press out and you can install a new bushing or jewel. Did you observe any brassing on the winding bridge underneath the ratchet wheel that would indicate the barrel was tipping excessively? What is the condition of the ratchet wheel itself? Is the wheel set properly on top of the barrel arbor? The ratchet wheels are usually keyed; some squared and some slightly rounded with one or two flat sides. You must make sure the ratchet wheel is set properly on top of the barrel arbor and then screwed down. Otherwise, this might lead to the condition you are describing. Good luck with it.
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Did you observe any brassing on the winding bridge underneath the ratchet wheel that would indicate the barrel was tipping excessively?
I did not, that's the odd thing...I would have almost expected that.

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Is the wheel set properly on top of the barrel arbor?
Yes, that was something I made sure of although these seem to wear a bit. I may just try a replacement for that first before any other actions.

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Good luck with it.
Thanks, I took a couple years off from watches but have been back and enjoying the Seikos immensely. I've finished about a dozen in the last couple months...I forgot what therapy this really is.
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Old 01-08-2020, 04:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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With the second reduction wheel in place the mainspring will not let down by holding the click back. it will all just stay static.
You need to remove the second reduction wheel before you can let down the mainspring.
Check the ratchet wheel is located correctly on the arbour of the barrel, i.e the flat part of the center hole of the ratchet wheel is aligned with one of the 2 flats on the arbour. Also check that the ratchet wheel doesnt have a little kink around the center hole, due to being misaligned previously.
What amplitude do you have?

If the barrel is tilting due to worn bushings you can usually see where it is been fouling the bridge and wearing the plating away, and id expect the amplitude to be low.

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Old 01-08-2020, 04:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
With the second reduction wheel in place the mainspring will not let down by holding the click back
Good grief, now this is embarrassing. I just never seemed to notice before what the click did (or didn't do) when the second reduction wheel was engaged, sheesh.

So sorry to create much ado about nothing! Hahaha.

Just got home from work and all is well, amplitude of 254. I'll put her back together tonight and carry on.

Thanks for chiming in though everybody.

Scott
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Old 01-08-2020, 05:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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All wrapped up and I think I'll keep it on the "well worn" side. I'm not sure what is aftermarket (I did put a new crystal in) or real, but it wears well on the wrist.
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Old 01-08-2020, 06:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Dial and insert appear to be original, but im not sure about the hands, i would need a better pic, though im leaning towards original.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Here ya go, hopefully this is a better shot of the hands. Also, I wonder if there is a gentle way to get rid of the black spots on the marker lume? Is that a chemical reaction that causes the black? Strange.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Here ya go, hopefully this is a better shot of the hands. Also, I wonder if there is a gentle way to get rid of the black spots on the marker lume? Is that a chemical reaction that causes the black? Strange.
Great looking piece and excellent numbers on the overhaul. My understanding of the black specs on the dial lume is that any moisture that has entered the case environment reacts with the salts in the lume material Seiko used and creates these black specs or also know as Wabi. I cannot speak expertly on how to clean this up of if it can be cleaned. Most hands are re-lumed if the lume is too damaged. Dials like this are not easily re-lumed. I think the watch looks pretty good for an aged piece. I would leave it.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I think the watch looks pretty good for an aged piece. I would leave it.
Thanks John! Yeah I tend to agree, I like the wabi myself.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
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When I find those hard little black spots I try to pick them off with my sharpened fine oiler end......but then I also want to squeeze the pimples on our teenage son's face too ;-(
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:44 AM   #14 (permalink)
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When I find those hard little black spots I try to pick them off with my sharpened fine oiler end......but then I also want to squeeze the pimples on our teenage son's face too ;-(
Hahaha, don't forget peeling sunburned skin.
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Hands look original, but the minute and seconds hands have been relumed
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I'd say seconds is am Ivor and not sure on the others.
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Old 01-09-2020, 05:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'd say seconds is am Ivor and not sure on the others.

You could be right Guy, i struggle with the seconds hands. What dont you think is right about it?
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thin border and looks rounded. Always look for that on them. As for the others they look a bit elongated, but no idea on them..
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