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Old 10-02-2019, 06:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Dial feet repair?

Is anyone doing soldered dial feet repair here in the US?
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It'd be nice to know if someone does. I've tried several times and just can't get it to stick. I've watched the turorials, done it exactly as shown, and crap. It just won't stick, I gave up.

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Old 10-02-2019, 09:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SeikoPsycho2 View Post
Is anyone doing soldered dial feet repair here in the US?
Yes, Tanner Morehouse with TM Watch Co up in ND can perform this service.

https://tmwatchco.com
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I thought Art Dial could do it. And maybe LA Watch Works.
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Old 10-03-2019, 01:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Glue(or tape) the dial to the movement


Sure, it won't be OE but neither is a new dial foot.



With soldering there is a chance of damaging the upside of the dial


I've seen it happen.


I asked a watchmaker friend with the proper soldering machine and the skills to do it (I've only done it many years ago with a mini soldering bolt - old skool-like) to do one for me.


He didn't want to because of the risk of damage and agreed - better/safer to glue (or tape) it.
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Old 10-03-2019, 03:14 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I've had Duncan do one for me, he has the correct tooling to do it.
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Old 10-03-2019, 04:14 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I've had Duncan do one for me, he has the correct tooling to do it.





See my post above re correct gear.



Even with that and the most skilled operator - the dial can be damaged.


The watchmaker who I mentioned above (he's not perfect at his trade of course) is 74 years old and has done it all his life.
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:34 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks guys!

I just picked up a decent yellow dial 6139 with broken feet. I'm not much on patch job repairs and feel that the correct repair is soldering the feet back on.


That leaves me with one of two choices. Purchase the equipment myself or find someone who already has the proper equipment. One things for sure, I've got plenty of dials around to practice on before I attempt the 6139 dial........


I realize there is a risk in dial damage but guess what, it's already damaged with broken feet.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I have one of the dial feet soldering machines that were available a year or so ago.




I used it a month ago to solder feet onto a Breitling dial where both had sheared off.

The principle is very simple, but while the machine does work, it can be very fiddly getting the feet perfectly located.

I believe that I now have a technique sorted that ensures this.
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Old 10-03-2019, 08:19 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Interesting bit of kit Simon and good to know you have one.
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Old 10-03-2019, 08:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I hate mine. But I put two starter dimples in via a spare mainplate ideally and then use a lower temp solder paste.
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Old 10-04-2019, 11:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I have used a mini jewelers torch and tix solder with some success. I dimple the dial for the dial feet location. I use a very small amount of solder. I have a Bergeon dial feet assortment and I try to pick out the correct size but sometimes I have to turn it in the lathe. I usually turn it in the lathe to make the foot a little smaller in diameter, on the end that goes on the dial. If you have to make some adjustment it easier. I like the dial feet a little longer so I can direct the heat away from the dial. There's still that risk of scorching the paint but I haven't yet.
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Old 10-04-2019, 02:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeikoPsycho2 View Post
Thanks guys!

I just picked up a decent yellow dial 6139 with broken feet. I'm not much on patch job repairs and feel that the correct repair is soldering the feet back on.


That leaves me with one of two choices. Purchase the equipment myself or find someone who already has the proper equipment. One things for sure, I've got plenty of dials around to practice on before I attempt the 6139 dial........


I realize there is a risk in dial damage but guess what, it's already damaged with broken feet.





It's not damaged on the side you see and that is what you RISK having the dial feet soldered on
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Old 10-04-2019, 06:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzwatchdoctor View Post
Glue(or tape) the dial to the movement


Sure, it won't be OE but neither is a new dial foot.



With soldering there is a chance of damaging the upside of the dial

Glue/tape are both noteworthy "bodge it" methods and also have drawbacks, which i know from personal experience.
If you use dial tape you have to be precise first time on setting the dial as you wont get a second go. Trying to remove the dial afterwards often results in damage as you try to seperate it from the movement.


Glue. What glue do you use?
Cyanoacrylates (Super glue) is definately a no no. Again you only get one go at it, it gives off fumes, my eyes water and sting when i use it in close proximity. Contact adhesives are better, but i find that they have some flexibility (even when cured) which results in the dial twisting on the movement when the case back is screwed down, which often results in the dial being out of align with the day date, and chapter ring where fitted.


Strangely enough i have a 7002 7029 where the dial has been drilled and the dial feet have been made from 2 rivets which go through the dial into the movement. It came from Eblag NZ. I guess thats what the customer must have asked for.


Here it is in a 150m case with an AM blue insert
Note the rivets, one under the 9 indice, and the other above the date window.

20191004_224055[1].jpg


Tom, Id recommend Duncan, but if your looking to have a go yourself, look at Bismuth or Indium low temp solder pastes.
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Old 10-04-2019, 11:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
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This gave me an idea. I know there's a risk of damaging the dial if it is glued/taped to the movement. So why not create a very thin plate with soldered feet. And then stick that to the back of the actual dial. This way you don't run the risk of burning the original dial and it is easy to separate from the movement Could be a $.
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Old 10-05-2019, 12:52 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Duncan worked a 6309 for me a while back whose feet had detached. If I recall correctly it was 50 to have the feet resoldered or 0 for dial pads. I chose the latter. So if DH (plus many watchsmiths) offers pads, which is a tape, it’s not really a bodge.
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Old 10-05-2019, 05:51 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Thanks for your input guys!

Personally, I'm not comfortable with tape. Upon the sale of the watch if that transpires in the future, The tape may slip my mind with all the 6139's I have seen pass through my hands. Even if it didn't, a resale after the sale might miss the mention of missing dial feet.
At the prices these 6139's are fetching I don't think I'd be too happy purchasing one and finding out the dial feet were missing.
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:11 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I’ve soldered them before on a bell but it’s not something I like doing.

People talking about glueing them... If you must glue then use a tiny dab of silicone sealer (like clear bathroom sealant). It will stick like 5hit to a blanket, keep slightly flexible so is shock proof, doesn’t dry too quick so plenty of time to get the position but the best bit is it’s fully reversible & will peel off if/when you want it to. Just run a razor blade/exacto knife through it and then rub it off with pegwood.

Superglue is brittle and too thin. Could easily ruin a watch with it if you’re not careful.

It’s not something I’d do on a job for someone but honestly my son’s pepsi 0030 had one missing foot and I used silicone on that a couple of years ago. I had it apart the other day to change the chapter ring and it’s still perfect. I wouldn’t have an issue using silicone on something like a beater 7s26 diver for myself.

In fact I think I’d be tempted to do it on my 6105 or 62MAS if they lost a foot (unlikely) as I’ve seen many pics of watches for sale over the years with damage from soldering which ruins the dial. It’d be a real heart in mouth moment soldering a mint, rare dial.

I think glueing conjures up images of people spreading glue everywhere but if done carefully under mag with a dab of silicone in one spot using an oiler it can be done neatly, safely and is reversible & will hold solid.
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:47 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Ok maybe a dumb question, but with one solid dial foot securely in place, proper dial ring and all that, is one foot missing truly a concern or just one of those things that can bug us WIS's ?
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Old 10-05-2019, 10:04 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I think that if one has already broken, there must have been some play to allow it to have broken away in the first place. So the other one will break, as its now taking the full load on its own.
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Old 10-05-2019, 11:51 AM   #21 (permalink)
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The problem with dial dots or similar on a 6139 is that there's very little room to attach them with the day and date discs taking up space. If you're going to use glue then you'll need to glue the dial to the dial ring and then glue the dial ring to the movement, plus if there's any movement in the adhesive when screwing the case back on or fitted slightly off centre you'll foul the sub dial hands.

I don't have a dial foot soldering machine but have considered buying one. The problem is that at 200 it's going to take a long time to recoup the investment when I see maybe only one or two dials with missing feet per year. I think if I had a 6138/9 with missing feet I'd just cough up and send it to Duncan to be fixed properly but I've gotten by using dial dots or acrylic adhesive so far.
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Old 10-06-2019, 09:26 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I'm late to the party.

I have had 100% sucess rate with Cousinsuk.com non-swiss dial feet.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/wa...feet-non-swiss

Here are some poinrers when using them.

1. The head depth is only 0.1mm but I sand them down even thinner. Just use a pin vice to hold the foot and sand it down so it's thinner but still stiff.
2. Trim the length before you bond it.
3. Place the dial feet into the movement to make sure there is no interference, and file the head shape if required.
4. With the feet attached to the movement place the dial (just balance it with no adhesive) onto the feet to confirm everything will come together.
5. Only use J-B Weld 8265S Original Cold-Weld Steel Reinforced Epoxy to bond the foot. Full cure time is 24 hours. It's the best readily available product
6. Foot placement is critical. If you can see the old feet position, scribe a very fine cross and use that to align the dial feet. If the old feet position is not visible, then mount the feet onto the movement, dab a small amount of jb weld on each foot, place the dial onto the feet and adjust the position of the dial so it's centred over hole and rotational alignment to the day/ date, or the watch stem.
7. Do something else for 24 hours.
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Old 10-06-2019, 09:41 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMeasure View Post
I'm late to the party.

I have had 100% sucess rate with Cousinsuk.com non-swiss dial feet.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/wa...feet-non-swiss

Here are some poinrers when using them.

1. The head depth is only 0.1mm but I sand them down even thinner. Just use a pin vice to hold the foot and sand it down so it's thinner but still stiff.
2. Trim the length before you bond it.
3. Place the dial feet into the movement to make sure there is no interference, and file the head shape if required.
4. With the feet attached to the movement place the dial (just balance it with no adhesive) onto the feet to confirm everything will come together.
5. Only use J-B Weld 8265S Original Cold-Weld Steel Reinforced Epoxy to bond the foot. Full cure time is 24 hours. It's the best readily available product
6. Foot placement is critical. If you can see the old feet position, scribe a very fine cross and use that to align the dial feet. If the old feet position is not visible, then mount the feet onto the movement, dab a small amount of jb weld on each foot, place the dial onto the feet and adjust the position of the dial so it's centred over hole and rotational alignment to the day/ date, or the watch stem.
7. Do something else for 24 hours.
Informative post. Love JB Weld. I have also use small amounts of JB Weld to piece back together plastic dial spacers on some models which are so difficult to find these days.

Assume you leave the dial spacer out when setting the dial onto the feet already in the movement?
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Old 10-06-2019, 09:45 AM   #24 (permalink)
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This is great, thank you. What would be the length to get for modern Seiko feet?
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Old 10-06-2019, 10:16 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vette Enthusiast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMeasure View Post
I'm late to the party.

I have had 100% sucess rate with Cousinsuk.com non-swiss dial feet.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/wa...feet-non-swiss

Here are some poinrers when using them.

1. The head depth is only 0.1mm but I sand them down even thinner. Just use a pin vice to hold the foot and sand it down so it's thinner but still stiff.
2. Trim the length before you bond it.
3. Place the dial feet into the movement to make sure there is no interference, and file the head shape if required.
4. With the feet attached to the movement place the dial (just balance it with no adhesive) onto the feet to confirm everything will come together.
5. Only use J-B Weld 8265S Original Cold-Weld Steel Reinforced Epoxy to bond the foot. Full cure time is 24 hours. It's the best readily available product
6. Foot placement is critical. If you can see the old feet position, scribe a very fine cross and use that to align the dial feet. If the old feet position is not visible, then mount the feet onto the movement, dab a small amount of jb weld on each foot, place the dial onto the feet and adjust the position of the dial so it's centred over hole and rotational alignment to the day/ date, or the watch stem.
7. Do something else for 24 hours.
Informative post. Love JB Weld. I have also use small amounts of JB Weld to piece back together plastic dial spacers on some models which are so difficult to find these days.

Assume you leave the dial spacer out when setting the dial onto the feet already in the movement?
Good point regarding the dial spacer. In step 4 you want to install the dial spacer (if it has one) to make sure there is no interference with the head of the foot.

With step 6, you can play around with the spacer in or out before you bond it. The key thing is to think it through before you commit to bonding.
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