1987 Seiko Diver - no longer waterproof - parts? - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 1987 Seiko Diver - no longer waterproof - parts?

hello, I have an old diver and it's no longer waterproof...or resistant. A shower or a dive in the pool and water gets in. I've been pulling the back off and using a hair driver to dry it out. However, I'd like to solve the problem.

I took the watch to two local clock shops. One wasn't great and the other won't touch it. This feels like my old Porsche 911. Not old enough to be of real value, or new enough to be owned by a rich dude. So I fix that too.

My question, I'm new to watch repair but mechanical (rebuilt a cb750 engine a couple years ago) ---- what tools and parts will I need? Where can I buy the parts?

Btw - watch is fairly accurate still. within a min @ 4 days.

Thanks for the help!
7D4106 Serial #
6309-729A
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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If all you need is to make it water resistant again. Visit Cousinsuk.com and order a set of generic gaskets. You'll need to replace the caseback gasket, gasket in the crown and perhaps even the crystal gasket. So 3 gaskets in total. Make sure the sealing surfaces are clean from corrosions.
Use Silicon Grease on the gaskets.

Lastly, youll need to get it pressure tested as that's the only way you can be certain.

Just for your information the watch has alot of aftermarket parts. I can see the insert, dial and hands are non original.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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It's a classic divers watch - treat it with care and DON'T take it in water



Especially DON'T take it in hot / warm water (even with new seals) as the lower density of the hot water can (occasionally) get past even good seals
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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As for tools, you’ll need — at the very least — a case opener (*duh*) and a crystal press. The press will be necessary to install the crystal after you have replaced the crystal gasket. You might also want some sort of non-marring tool to remove the bezel.

There are many people here who are more experienced and better at this stuff than me, and they can help you. The one bit of advice that I’d offer is to be extremely careful when removing the crystal and the old crystal gasket. IIRC, the crystal is held in place by a retaining ring that is easily cracked — in fact, it’s fairly common for it to be cracked on older watches. You may want to order a new one when you order your gaskets.
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzwatchdoctor View Post
It's a classic divers watch - treat it with care and DON'T take it in water



Especially DON'T take it in hot / warm water (even with new seals) as the lower density of the hot water can (occasionally) get past even good seals
I've rebuilt a lot of 4205,with new crystal gaskets,stem rings,so on,never had any issues,even with a warm shower.
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
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this helps a lot. I've found a number of tools sets on amazon (cheap starter sets) - as the bug gets me I'm sure tool budget will grow as well.

Not surprised my watch was a Frankenstein. My CB750 motorcycle has become a mix of parts too... Now it's a 836cc. "idle hands" should be avoided!!

For car/cycles/appliances - I use a diagram to determine parts # and size. Then I purchase.

How do I determine retaining clip size & type? The gaskets look like they come in a massive set...cheap too....so that part seems easy.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Willard13 View Post
this helps a lot. I've found a number of tools sets on amazon (cheap starter sets) - as the bug gets me I'm sure tool budget will grow as well.

Not surprised my watch was a Frankenstein. My CB750 motorcycle has become a mix of parts too... Now it's a 836cc. "idle hands" should be avoided!!

For car/cycles/appliances - I use a diagram to determine parts # and size. Then I purchase.

How do I determine retaining clip size & type? The gaskets look like they come in a massive set...cheap too....so that part seems easy.
Seiko’s casing parts guide is the definitive source for part numbers, which is the best way to know what you need. Another — sometimes less authoritative — source is the Jules Borel Web site. Hopefully, the following link will work:

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/ma...&submit=Search

If not, go to Jules Borel, select the JBC Watch Parts Database, and type “sek cs#6309-7040” (without the quote marks) into the search window.

You can find both gaskets and retaining rings on eBay. I haven’t bought any of them lately, so I don’t know how good they are. I’m sure others can weigh in on this.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
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awesome stuff. thank you.....now I have to wait for everything to arrive. ...or find another project in the meantime
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Old 09-05-2019, 10:01 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 09-05-2019, 10:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gundamx001 View Post
I've rebuilt a lot of 4205,with new crystal gaskets,stem rings,so on,never had any issues,even with a warm shower.



1/ He's talking about a 6309 not a 4205


2/ Define "a lot"? 10, 20, 100?


3/ Showering with a watch subjects it to warm/hot water and soap/chemical scum which is not good


4/ I have (and I know other watchmakers who's had to deal with this) classic divers which have had seals replaced/been water pressure tested and later leaked and ruined movements/dials etc
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I've rebuilt a few hundred Citizen watches, and the things that I have seen previous owners do to some of those watches is not for the faint of heart. Horology wise that is. The tool you will need the most, above all, is decent magnification. Something over 5X. A watch movement or case might look fine to the naked eye, (is nudity even allowed on this site), but look at it under 10X and it's a whole new world. As was mentioned, Cousins in the UK has a wide variety of stem and case seals/gaskets/micro o-rings, but, if you live in the States, and want to save on the shipping, Jules Borel is a better choice.
And, water, warm or cold, with or without soap, shouldn't harm a watch, even if it's not 100% 'water tight', it's water under pressure that gets through.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by holonalu View Post
I've rebuilt a few hundred Citizen watches, and the things that I have seen previous owners do to some of those watches is not for the faint of heart. Horology wise that is. The tool you will need the most, above all, is decent magnification. Something over 5X. A watch movement or case might look fine to the naked eye, (is nudity even allowed on this site), but look at it under 10X and it's a whole new world.

That's some excellent advice right there. Good magnification and good lighting are investments that will prevent damaged watches, lost parts, and inadvisable behavior toward loved ones. Ask me how I know this
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:40 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by holonalu View Post
I've rebuilt a few hundred Citizen watches, and the things that I have seen previous owners do to some of those watches is not for the faint of heart. Horology wise that is. The tool you will need the most, above all, is decent magnification. Something over 5X. A watch movement or case might look fine to the naked eye, (is nudity even allowed on this site), but look at it under 10X and it's a whole new world. As was mentioned, Cousins in the UK has a wide variety of stem and case seals/gaskets/micro o-rings, but, if you live in the States, and want to save on the shipping, Jules Borel is a better choice.
And, water, warm or cold, with or without soap, shouldn't harm a watch, even if it's not 100% 'water tight', it's water under pressure that gets through.





Try a bit of SAFETY first = keep classic dive watches OUT of water


"I've rebuilt a few hundred Citizen watches," I was a watchmaker for Citizen New Zealand.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:32 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by holonalu View Post
I've rebuilt a few hundred Citizen watches, and the things that I have seen previous owners do to some of those watches is not for the faint of heart. Horology wise that is. The tool you will need the most, above all, is decent magnification. Something over 5X. A watch movement or case might look fine to the naked eye, (is nudity even allowed on this site), but look at it under 10X and it's a whole new world. As was mentioned, Cousins in the UK has a wide variety of stem and case seals/gaskets/micro o-rings, but, if you live in the States, and want to save on the shipping, Jules Borel is a better choice.
And, water, warm or cold, with or without soap, shouldn't harm a watch, even if it's not 100% 'water tight', it's water under pressure that gets through.
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Originally Posted by nzwatchdoctor View Post
Try a bit of SAFETY first = keep classic dive watches OUT of water


"I've rebuilt a few hundred Citizen watches," I was a watchmaker for Citizen New Zealand.
It would be great if a bit of knowledge could be added to experience!

Edit: "There is no saturation point in education"
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nzwatchdoctor View Post
Try a bit of SAFETY first = keep classic dive watches OUT of water


"I've rebuilt a few hundred Citizen watches," I was a watchmaker for Citizen New Zealand.
As a watchmaker you would know that parts to keep the majority of those 'classic' dive watches are readily available, either in generic form or from the manufacturer. And removing the pushers, main stem, case back, crystal, inspecting everything, replacing what needs replacing, re-siliconing, and pressure testing, is not that big of a deal. The whole idea is to keep classic dive watches IN the water.

Aloha

Didn't realize Citizen actually built watches in New Zealand, learn something new every day
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:19 PM   #17 (permalink)
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As a watchmaker you would know that parts to keep the majority of those 'classic' dive watches are readily available, either in generic form or from the manufacturer. And removing the pushers, main stem, case back, crystal, inspecting everything, replacing what needs replacing, re-siliconing, and pressure testing, is not that big of a deal. The whole idea is to keep classic dive watches IN the water.

Aloha

Didn't realize Citizen actually built watches in New Zealand, learn something new every day
Touche!
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:48 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by holonalu View Post
As a watchmaker you would know that parts to keep the majority of those 'classic' dive watches are readily available, either in generic form or from the manufacturer. And removing the pushers, main stem, case back, crystal, inspecting everything, replacing what needs replacing, re-siliconing, and pressure testing, is not that big of a deal. The whole idea is to keep classic dive watches IN the water.

Aloha

Didn't realize Citizen actually built watches in New Zealand, learn something new every day





As a watchmaker I know that it's best to be cautious with classic divers watches and if able to keep them OUT of water.



"parts to keep the majority of those 'classic' dive watches are readily available," but not the original parts that get ruined by water if the worst happens (which I have seen) including ORIGINAL movement, dials etc.



They don't build watches in NZ but they do get SERVICED
Try looking up the current definition of "watchmaker".
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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"watchmaker" - someone who doesn't use inappropriate tools and damage the watch they're working on, learns to use different working practises to suit the job at hand - someone who you can trust to leave no trace. Someone who picks their professional peers wisely and takes responsibility for any damage caused during service ??
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:08 PM   #20 (permalink)
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"watchmaker" - someone who doesn't use inappropriate tools and damage the watch they're working on, learns to use different working practises to suit the job at hand - someone who you can trust to leave no trace. Someone who picks their professional peers wisely and takes responsibility for any damage caused during service ??
Are you trying to say that vice grips, duct tape, and WD40 aren't allowed.

Damn.............
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:21 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Wanted to circle back. the tools arrived, as well as, seiko grease. My thought was to take the watch apart and do very little...do no harm. To understand slowly how this machine works. While this is NOT a pressure test, I reassembled without the movement and put the watch in a large bucket of water. A tiny bit of water came in from the bottom. So I added grease to the bottom seal and crown, and now she seems fixed - real world testing - a number of showers, yard work, car washing and swimming.

...just like plumber's puddy or oiling a automotive seal.

long-term fix, probably not...
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:06 AM   #22 (permalink)
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As these watches age, the seals get brittle and hard just like seals in a car or motorcycle. Putting grease on old seals is a temporary fix at best. Your best bet is the replace all the seals on the case and the crown seal and then apply a small amount of silicone grease for best results and long term water resistance. Surfaces seals sit in must be clean and free of dirt, rust, and pitting.
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:42 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I figured you’d understand the whole 6309 thing when you mentioned your old Porsche 911. My 911 will be 20 years old next month ... a 2000 model, built in 1999. It is an early version of the 996 — which is either justifiably unloved or unfairly underrated, depending on your point of view — so it falls pretty well into that “decent car but not a rich guy toy” niche. I bought it some years ago for less than the cost of a late model Honda Civic. And over the years I’ve replaced a ton of parts — water pumps, radiators, ignition coils, headlights, and God knows what else.

So why is any of this relevant? Because anyone who maintains an old sports car has encountered all the stupid places — such as the ones I just mentioned — where replacing something involves replacing a seal or gasket. Even an air-cooled car has plenty of seals meant to keep stuff in or out, and I think you’re well advised to think of your 6309 the same way. Whether it’s an old car or an old watch, new gaskets are cheap insurance.
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:45 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I figured you’d understand the whole 6309 thing when you mentioned your old Porsche 911. My 911 will be 20 years old next month ... a 2000 model, built in 1999. It is an early version of the 996 — which is either justifiably unloved or unfairly underrated, depending on your point of view — so it falls pretty well into that “decent car but not a rich guy toy” niche. I bought it some years ago for less than the cost of a late model Honda Civic. And over the years I’ve replaced a ton of parts — water pumps, radiators, ignition coils, headlights, and God knows what else.

So why is any of this relevant? Because anyone who maintains an old sports car has encountered all the stupid places — such as the ones I just mentioned — where replacing something involves replacing a seal or gasket. Even an air-cooled car has plenty of seals meant to keep stuff in or out, and I think you’re well advised to think of your 6309 the same way. Whether it’s an old car or an old watch, new gaskets are cheap insurance.





Your Porsche maybe capable of driving down dirt roads etc but the sensible you wouldn't do it.


Same with classic divers watches with new seals etc.



Keep them OUT of water
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Or, you could spend a few hundred GBP's for one of these, and put the classic divers watch INTO the chamber, close the lid, tighten everything, pump it up to about 4 Bars, or the equivalent of 120 feet UNDER WATER, and plunk the hapless time piece into the not so briny deep. ( It's distilled water, some use Vodka, not necessarily in the device). So, you would then have a watch that has been in atmosphere under pressure, sitting under water. You slowly release the pressure, and, if the watch has a leak, you'll see a tiny stream of bubbles coming out of the exact location where the air got in, the leak site. If that's the case, you raise the watch back out of the water, release all of the pressure, remove the watch, and fix the leak. And, because air was coming OUT of your leaky watch, no water was getting in.
On the minus side, for the cost of the Calypso you can buy quite a few watches. I have a Calypso, and use it on every watch I service.

Aloha
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