What to do if your new second hand hole is too small?... - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default What to do if your new second hand hole is too small?...

Well i know this is a odd question...but i seem to find the odd stuff...i am working on a 1976 Seiko 6105-8119 for a friend and he asked me to do a simple second hand swap...the one that was on the watch was incorrect and he was able to source what he thought and was told was a NOS one...the hand and watch arrived to me and looked great but the lume seemed off to me and did not look like the ones i have seen in the past...when BRY1975 caseback tool arrived and i was able to disassemble the watch...i was able to remove the incorrect second hand and looked visually at the two hands side by side and the new hand the hole looked much smaller...so i was very concerned...i tried gently to install it and to my dismay...it would even try to fit...it acted like there was no hole..so i tried it on another movt..same results...i tried the incorrect 6105 hand on the other movt and it fits as it should...anyone ran into this?....what do u do when a new second hand does not fit?...in all of my years never ran into this...is this common?....should i press harder?....my worry is of course damaging the watch or hand or both....any advice will so be appreciated...what i think is...the hand is not genuine and hence the reason for the problem...God Bless,John
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Are you able to take a picture of the new hand? Sounds to me to be typical of aftermarket hands. You might find you have to broach it slightly to fit. Be careful tho as removing too much will lead it to be loose and too little ...well you might still split the pipe.

I'd be surprised if a genuine nos 6105 seconds hand wouldn't fit so my money is on it being a copy.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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well i took a few pics last night...i can try and take more when i get back home...
i see no evidence of lume like i have seen in the past with genuine hands...
God Bless,John
thank u my friend..truly appreciate it





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Old 03-12-2019, 10:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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You're saying there is zero glow at all to the nos one?

Initially I have to say it looks correct...but that pink dot looks very bright...and I can't still quite tell if the edging to the traffic light part is flat or slightly rounded....

Next I'd look at the tube and check it isn't pinched or cracked?
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:13 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Is it just my eyes (looking at this on my phone as well), or is the post on the original missing?
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
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well the tube is round..not pinched or anything like that as that was my original thinking after trying it...but once i first got everything and was just looking at the hand..the hole to me from the naked eye and my eyes are not good...looked very small..and much smaller than the non correct hand....i even told my friend..he was told this was genuine when he got it 8 months or so ago.....it does not have the lume on the back like others i have seen and the hand almost looks round..not flat like the other one in pics...i honestly forgot to see if it glows or not..will have to look for that...
i will try and get some better pics...but pics for me are so hard...apologize for them in advance....
appreciate u looking at them...God Bless,John
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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John, o you have a spare center wheel ? You could lay the hand Cannon up and see if the pinion will fit in the cannon, It adds a visual one can't see when on the watch.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acidstain View Post
Is it just my eyes (looking at this on my phone as well), or is the post on the original missing?
If its still on the movement that would account for being unable to fit the new one ?
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
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yup this pic especially seems to show the original as sitting a little lower. Good eyes Steph..

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Old 03-12-2019, 11:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
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duplicate
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Well the post is on both hands as i stated and i even installed the old hand to be sure it was not my eyes...that one works fine...the problem is with the new hand..it would not install on two different movements...God Bless,John

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"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
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2. All the Soldiers around the World who fought for the lives and freedoms we have today

One hung on the cross and died for your soul

Our Soldiers bled and died for our freedom and we owe them everything...please never forget that...

The Republic will cease to exist when the government takes away from those who are willing to work to give to those who are not.
Unknown....

"This is what the Lord says: 'Stand at the crossroads and look; Ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.' " (Jer. 6:16)
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
If its still on the movement that would account for being unable to fit the new one ?
The post is still on the old hand...

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2. All the Soldiers around the World who fought for the lives and freedoms we have today

One hung on the cross and died for your soul

Our Soldiers bled and died for our freedom and we owe them everything...please never forget that...

The Republic will cease to exist when the government takes away from those who are willing to work to give to those who are not.
Unknown....

"This is what the Lord says: 'Stand at the crossroads and look; Ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.' " (Jer. 6:16)
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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well here is some more pics...i tried to use a magnifier on this as well...i do have a spare center wheel as that is a great idea my friend...i added some pics with it...the original older hand will fit just fine...the new hand is way way too small...God Bless,John















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"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ

2. All the Soldiers around the World who fought for the lives and freedoms we have today

One hung on the cross and died for your soul

Our Soldiers bled and died for our freedom and we owe them everything...please never forget that...

The Republic will cease to exist when the government takes away from those who are willing to work to give to those who are not.
Unknown....

"This is what the Lord says: 'Stand at the crossroads and look; Ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.' " (Jer. 6:16)
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:16 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm fairly convinced that's an AM seconds hand John.

Maybe the original hand could be cleaned and relumed?
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Well it is the wrong one...it needs to be the shorter one for the later versions...i originally thought that too...my.thinking is this is not a genuine one...so how hard is it to make this hole larger?
Never even attempted this before...appreciate everyone's help...
God Bless,John
Buyer beware on Ebay Purchases...that is where this hand came from...

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"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
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2. All the Soldiers around the World who fought for the lives and freedoms we have today

One hung on the cross and died for your soul

Our Soldiers bled and died for our freedom and we owe them everything...please never forget that...

The Republic will cease to exist when the government takes away from those who are willing to work to give to those who are not.
Unknown....

"This is what the Lord says: 'Stand at the crossroads and look; Ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.' " (Jer. 6:16)
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Have a read here.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/seik...hp?t=334&amp=1
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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that explains it perfectly...thank u again my friend...what would u suggest i do?...find the correct hand or try and make this one work?...God Bless,John
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2. All the Soldiers around the World who fought for the lives and freedoms we have today

One hung on the cross and died for your soul

Our Soldiers bled and died for our freedom and we owe them everything...please never forget that...

The Republic will cease to exist when the government takes away from those who are willing to work to give to those who are not.
Unknown....

"This is what the Lord says: 'Stand at the crossroads and look; Ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.' " (Jer. 6:16)
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Personally I would relume the original. It fits..it's not am...well that would be my route.

Happy to sort it if you want to send John and I'll do it asap.

Otherwise could find a donor scrap fourth wheel, stick the pivot in a pin vice and see if you can slowly rotate and insert the pivot into the hand whilst it's flat on the desk?

Broaching it would be your best bet but I guess for a cheap am hand it might work....I wouldn't be surprised that if you're gentle but firm you could open the pipe up slightly that way if you haven't any broaches?
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:46 PM   #19 (permalink)
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If it is a after market hand and as such not worth a lot you could even try using a very fine needle to enlarge the pipe if you don't have any broaches, nothing to loose.

ps: Not a recommended method but some guys might even suggest you glue it on
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:54 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Well thanks to that tip with using the center wheel to try and open it up...that worked...very cool idea you all...here is the new hand installed...truly appreciate the help...my friend will be very pleased...God Bless,John
well worth the effort to make this work and i learned something new today...i will definitely invest in some broaches ...


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"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ

2. All the Soldiers around the World who fought for the lives and freedoms we have today

One hung on the cross and died for your soul

Our Soldiers bled and died for our freedom and we owe them everything...please never forget that...

The Republic will cease to exist when the government takes away from those who are willing to work to give to those who are not.
Unknown....

"This is what the Lord says: 'Stand at the crossroads and look; Ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.' " (Jer. 6:16)

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Old 03-12-2019, 07:03 PM   #21 (permalink)
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If this is (I hope it's not) your last project why would you want to buy broaches?
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:19 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Looks nice that John! Good job.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzwatchdoctor View Post
If this is (I hope it's not) your last project why would you want to buy broaches?
well if i needed them to do the job....i would have bought them...but thankfully i was able to use that removed center wheel and use it like a broach...worked perfectly....i really hope it is not my last...this 6105 project will really show if i can do this once and for all any more...God Bless,John
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"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ

2. All the Soldiers around the World who fought for the lives and freedoms we have today

One hung on the cross and died for your soul

Our Soldiers bled and died for our freedom and we owe them everything...please never forget that...

The Republic will cease to exist when the government takes away from those who are willing to work to give to those who are not.
Unknown....

"This is what the Lord says: 'Stand at the crossroads and look; Ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.' " (Jer. 6:16)
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:41 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Looks nice that John! Good job.
well thank u my friend and all who helped with great advice...never ran across this and now i have new appreciation for how involved this all is with each and every part......and i am just getting a little taste...it did make a big improvement in the looks of this watch...God Bless,John
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"Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ

2. All the Soldiers around the World who fought for the lives and freedoms we have today

One hung on the cross and died for your soul

Our Soldiers bled and died for our freedom and we owe them everything...please never forget that...

The Republic will cease to exist when the government takes away from those who are willing to work to give to those who are not.
Unknown....

"This is what the Lord says: 'Stand at the crossroads and look; Ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.' " (Jer. 6:16)
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:53 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Thank you for the extra work on my watch. I did not mean for it to be this much of a headache. Hope the long second hard will work for your project watch.

Thanks again
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