Lets talk End Shake - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 03-09-2019, 07:36 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Lets talk End Shake

I hear this term from time to time. I believe it has to do with the amount of side to side end play in the balance staff pinions and jewel settings for the balance wheel or the train gear pinions and their pivots. How do you look for end shake, measure it, and adjust for it for best possible running condition. I appreciate any insight here.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I’d love to know of a way to exactly measure endshake, like are there feeler gauges or some thing to determine exact play. Up to now I’ve been eyeballing it and guessing at endshake issues based on performance on the TG.

To adjust you shift the hole jewel or setting with a jeweling tool like a Seitz or Favorite, though I think something with a bit more micro adjustment like the ones from Horia are preferred.

Mark Lovick also demonstrated a cheat that can be employed to provide a bit more endplay for a balance by dimpling the plate under a balance cock to essentially shim it up a bit. I don’t think this is a method broadly embraced as acceptable

Also, you sometimes just have to replace parts. Pivots wear beyond being usable. I’ve a photo of a very worn escape wheel pivot someplace. The mov’t would run ok in one horizontal orientation but not in the other. When I examined the pivots I saw that the shoulder on one end was so worn down that the wheel would shift impair performance. I suppose I maybe could have adjusted out the endshake by adjusting the jewel but I had a better wheel so used it instead.


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Old 03-09-2019, 10:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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There is endshake and sideshake. Endshake is what you are mostly looking for. It's how much vertical movement the component has. As I'm pulling apart the movement I'm testing the endshake of the balance. Then when that's removed I test the pallet. Then when the pallets out I test the endshake for the train before I remove the bridge. It's something you get the feel of as it's something you can't physically measure. With the train you are looking at both the endshake and you are looking at the jewels and bushings that hold the pivots. If they are not at the correct depth you will see,
the pivot either almost falling out of the hole (too much end shake) or sticking out of the hole too much (too little end shake). I make a note of any problems and reset any incorrect bushings or jewels on the rebuild.

I just came across this which explains things fairly well...

https://nobswatchmaker.com/blog/simp...in-watchmaking
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Old 03-09-2019, 11:02 AM   #4 (permalink)
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^^
No BS watchmaker is a cool resource and fun to follow on Instagram.


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Old 03-09-2019, 11:05 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Lets talk End Shake

Here are the photos I mentioned. First the good pivot, then the worn one.

You can see the worn one shows significant wear and pitting and would have had endshake and sideshake. I’m working on an ETA 6497 at the moment that had seen water at some point and the pivots show wear allowing side shake that affects performance in the vertical orientations.






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Old 03-09-2019, 11:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Lets talk End Shake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vette Enthusiast View Post
I hear this term from time to time. I believe it has to do with the amount of side to side end play in the balance staff pinions and jewel settings for the balance wheel or the train gear pinions and their pivots. How do you look for end shake, measure it, and adjust for it for best possible running condition. I appreciate any insight here.


Extremely disappointed.


The title peaked my interest as I thought this thread would discuss the finer points of “twerking”.



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Old 03-09-2019, 01:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Good info here. Thank you all. Now we are really getting into the weeds.
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMeasure View Post
There is endshake and sideshake. Endshake is what you are mostly looking for. It's how much vertical movement the component has. As I'm pulling apart the movement I'm testing the endshake of the balance. Then when that's removed I test the pallet. Then when the pallets out I test the endshake for the train before I remove the bridge. It's something you get the feel of as it's something you can't physically measure. With the train you are looking at both the endshake and you are looking at the jewels and bushings that hold the pivots. If they are not at the correct depth you will see,
the pivot either almost falling out of the hole (too much end shake) or sticking out of the hole too much (too little end shake). I make a note of any problems and reset any incorrect bushings or jewels on the rebuild.

I just came across this which explains things fairly well...

https://nobswatchmaker.com/blog/simp...in-watchmaking
Amazing read. Thank you for sharing.
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