7546/8 dedicated movement holder - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 7546/8 dedicated movement holder

Hi all

I've been tinkering with an old non working 7546 movement stripping out the day and date elements for something to do. I have some decent screwdrivers and other bits and pieces and it's going quite well - having only permanently lost one screw although watching them fly around frequently. I only have the plastic/carbon tweezer set so perhaps I need metal ones.

Anyway I have a couple of questions. Is the perceived wisdom to remove hands and dial before doing too much related to the electronics and crown mechanism side of the watch? Reason I ask is that I have real trouble gripping the movement in my Bergeon movement holder. It's the plastic one (I thought best for quartz?). I've read on here previously that people have problems with this. It was forever working loose with little pressure applied. After constant repositioning and tightening on what was essentially a grip on the dial as it is proud of the movement, it came lose from it's little welded posts. I'd hate that to happen with a watch I cared about. Even with the hands and dial removed I still couldn't get any decent purchase to stop it moving around.

I see on eBay that there are dedicated movement holders of many kinds but not it seems for these types. Are they only for mechanical movements? For example there is a 6309 designed holder from VTA which does other similar movements

I believe I've seen 6309 internals placed in 7548 cases (or is it the other way round?). Would that mean that this holder type would accept the quartz mechanicals?

Thanks

Gavin
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I cant help about a dedicated movement holder but what I would say is that its a good idea to remove any delicate or easily damaged parts before major works, especially when you are starting out. That means dial and hands from dial side and balance from mechanical movements and maybe coils from electronic movements if they are likely to be damaged. Id invest in a decent metal Bergeon movement holder or two, and good tweezers are a really good investment as the amount of time you spend searching for bits otherwise can get ridiculous (ask me how I know!)

But good luck with it and keep on tinkering as its a really rewarding part of the hobby.


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Old 01-29-2019, 07:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have a 7548 on the bench right now. I have both Bergeon plastic and metal holders. They are both not much use for this particular movement. Its almost impossible to get a good grip. So I use a Seiko S-682 movement tool. It does not 'hold' a movement in place, but has rubber 4 pads which stops the movement sliding about. There are also gaps between the pads so when the movement is dial side down the 4th wheel and canon pinion do not hit anything.

You can find the on ebay or from your local watch material warehouse.

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Old 01-29-2019, 07:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You can work on it by removing the circuit, coil and shield installed by removing those as soon as you remove a caseback, and definitely remove dial and hands once outside the case, I try and put the dial and hands under a dust cover out of the way as soon as possible.

The only time I ever use the carbon 4040p holder with a dial attached to it is to relume, and it's already separated from the movement at this point.
You can remove the circuit and coil whilst the movement is cased, I usually do this to test a non runner to see if I can get some life with either of those parts replaced, or to check resistance easily of the coil, before doing the full service if it doesn't get it ticking within a satisfactory power consumption.

The 4040 is what you need anyway.... If you ever need to support a chrono seconds hand or a fourth wheel with tension finger when installing the hand then a dedicated movement holder is needed, or a jewelling tool with an anvil for support. But for me i find the 4040 pretty useful for what I do, or there are holders like the S-501 etc for 6139s.

For the 754x I usually manage to grip the circuit fine once installed before commencing with the dial side, but the carbon version doesn't grip easily as you know, so use the 4040. Using finger cots you can grip the sides to secure the movement whilst tightening screws at times. Or I tend to build up the calender side after keyless and train before finally installing the circuit and coil and then flipping back over to install the dial spacer, dial and then the hands on the flat surface of the bench, off the holder.

Once in the case I then oil the train bridge and test for accuracy on these as a last step.

The 6309 calender side is the same as the 7546/8 etc. 7545/6/8 can fit in a 6309 case, or vice versa, the only difference might be that a different movement spacer is needed depending on the case. 7546 movement spacers have smaller notches where the case crown tube fits as opposed to the larger crown tube on 6309 and 7548 divers. Others have plastic spacers instead of metal. Off the top of my head anyway. ....

Don't forget to tighten the dial screws down when ultrasonic cleaning as they will rotate loose. And don't tighten one individually when installing the dial, tighten (don't overdo it) them sequentially whilst making sure the hour wheel is central in the dial.

Anthony shows you some movement holders and their compatibility on his site.

https://www.plus9time.com/seiko-tools/

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Old 01-29-2019, 07:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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That looks like a cool holder, Dan.
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Old 01-29-2019, 07:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Excellent explanation Guy, thanks for taking the time to write it.


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Old 01-29-2019, 08:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Excellent explanation Guy, thanks for taking the time to write it.


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Old 01-29-2019, 09:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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That looks like a cool holder, Dan.

Its great. Also a handy tool for hand setting. You can pick one up from ebay for about 17 quid. That price includes shipping out of japan.

I use it all the time.
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Old 01-29-2019, 10:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hal0eight's 6309 movement holder is also a perfect fit for the 7548.


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Old 01-30-2019, 01:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Who or where is Hal0eight.

Ahhh found the 3D printed holders VTA 6170

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Old 01-30-2019, 01:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DonJ53 View Post
Who or where is Hal0eight.

Ahhh found the 3D printed holders VTA 6170


Yeah, Sorry. hal0eight and VTA are the same person.


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Old 01-30-2019, 01:24 AM   #12 (permalink)
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What is the other end of the S682 for. It looks to be designed for a purpose.

In all honesty it looks to be something easily DIY manufactured from a hardwood.
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Old 01-30-2019, 07:26 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Hi all

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply and the useful input.

I know how to proceed now (and also that it wasn't just me being me having the difficulties!)

Cheers again!

Gavin
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Old 01-30-2019, 07:33 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJ53 View Post
What is the other end of the S682 for. It looks to be designed for a purpose.

In all honesty it looks to be something easily DIY manufactured from a hardwood.
Yeah I have no idea what the groove is for. It could be a situation where you want to have the movement dial side down on a rigid surface.

DIY for sure, but it's a perfectly engineered and built bit of seiko plastic.
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:12 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I use the Seiko holder on a stand i've made which I also use for restoring crowns and get on well with it as its for the 7548/7549/6309/6105 and I much prefer this setup to using the Bergeon 4040.









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Old 01-30-2019, 08:40 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tiger UK View Post
I use the Seiko holder on a stand i've made which I also use for restoring crowns and get on well with it as its for the 7548/7549/6309/6105 and I much prefer this setup to using the Bergeon 4040.







[/IMG][/CENTER]

Thats a pretty cool solution John, looks nice and solid.



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Old 02-06-2019, 01:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have ordered a VTA 6170 to give it a try.

VTA6170.jpg
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Old 02-20-2019, 03:57 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Update: The VTA 6170 arrived yesterday but disappointingly the movements specified don't fit the one that arrived.
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:10 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default 7546/8 dedicated movement holder

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJ53 View Post
Update: The VTA 6170 arrived yesterday but disappointingly the movements specified don't fit the one that arrived.


That's disappointing, mine works fine. Are you finding it too tight?It does need pushing in firmly as it's a snug fit.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:34 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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That's disappointing, mine works fine. Are you finding it too tight?It does need pushing in firmly as it's a snug fit.
Two thumbs and no go. Ebayer is kindly shipping another.
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Old 02-20-2019, 07:31 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Two thumbs and no go. Ebayer is kindly shipping another.
I think you were just unlucky Don as I ordered one at the same time and it seems to be fine with a 7546. It is quite snug but holds it nicely even with the dial still attached - the three holding screws all line up.

Good to hear there's another on it's way
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Old 02-20-2019, 11:36 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJ53 View Post
Update: The VTA 6170 arrived yesterday but disappointingly the movements specified don't fit the one that arrived.

You could do with the micro mill and lathe I am selling Don so you could tweak this sort of stuff yourself
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Old 02-20-2019, 01:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
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You could do with the micro mill and lathe I am selling Don so you could tweak this sort of stuff yourself
Perhaps...message me their details.
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