Getting Started - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Getting Started

Hi all, I'm really eager to learn how to work on watches and was disappointed to see the "getting started" section under the reference materials and how-to's section just leads me back to the home page. Any comprehensive guides to getting started out there that someone would be kind enough to point me to? One specific thing I'd like is suggestions for better basic tools. My cheap amazon kit hasn't lasted very well from the few Seiko mods I've done. Thanks.
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hi all, I'm really eager to learn how to work on watches and was disappointed to see the "getting started" section under the reference materials and how-to's section just leads me back to the home page. Any comprehensive guides to getting started out there that someone would be kind enough to point me to? One specific thing I'd like is suggestions for better basic tools. My cheap amazon kit hasn't lasted very well from the few Seiko mods I've done. Thanks.
Hmm that's a pretty broad topic.

Aside from a tool list, what else do you need "to get started"? Do you need instructions on how to do basic stuff (movement swap, maybe change bezels and crystals etc) Or you can youtube that part?

If it's a tools list, it's easier for us to recommend if you tell us a bit more of what you're planning to do. I could easily recommend you a "starter set" that cost >$1,000.

Check this other post. We just gave a standard list to another member a week ago. If you need more help on where to save and where to splurge, we can be more specific. (IE. you can get away with a cheap case knife, but I highly recommend getting a nice swiss tweezer)

https://www.thewatchsite.com/34-watc...would-you.html
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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This is the online lesson that got me going...

http://www.clockmaker.com.au/diy_seiko_7s26/

As I mentioned in the post User Acidstain linked to, spend good money on a simple swiss screw driver set and tweezers.
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Old 01-26-2019, 08:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Yes, my question was broad because I'm unsure of how exactly far I'd go into this. Thanks for me pointing me to that other post. If I do get into movement disassembly, what size screwdrivers would I need then?
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Old 01-26-2019, 08:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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This is the online lesson that got me going...

http://www.clockmaker.com.au/diy_seiko_7s26/

As I mentioned in the post User Acidstain linked to, spend good money on a simple swiss screw driver set and tweezers.
Thank you for sharing this one
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Yes, my question was broad because I'm unsure of how exactly far I'd go into this. Thanks for me pointing me to that other post. If I do get into movement disassembly, what size screwdrivers would I need then?


I’d get the AF set or similar. I bought cheaper ones first. They were crap. But get the set as you’ll need a few sizes over time. Oh, and anothe vote for decent tweezers- if they save one part from pinging off never to be seen again they’ve paid for themselves.


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Old 01-26-2019, 04:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Yes, my question was broad because I'm unsure of how exactly far I'd go into this. Thanks for me pointing me to that other post. If I do get into movement disassembly, what size screwdrivers would I need then?
There is a nice bergeon 5 pcs set (080, 100, 120, 140, 160) that's a good start for basic swaps, etc. If you decide you want to take apart movements, you just have to buy the 2 smaller sizes afterwards (050, 060)

As for tweezer, dumont is pretty much the best. Typically #3 is the all purpose tweezer. For finer work (ie. hairspring) you use #5.

Personally I like swiss loupes as well. The lens is where the money is. Cheap loups can be had for less than $5, but lens are horrible. If you're doing basic swaps only, I guess this is good enough. If you want to do more in depth inspection, get a bergeon loupe (they are not too expensive anyway. Around $20-25). You can use an optivisor as well for hands free use. Just remember with loupes or any magnifyers: Stronger = shorted focus distance meaning you gotta get in physically closer.

case press and case opener is where you can save money, if you're not going to have heavy usage. For once in a while use, just get the cheap ones off ebay. For something with better quality (but a lot more $$$) you can go swiss. But i don't suggest that unless you're A: you want nothing but the best, and have extra $$$ to spend or B. you'll actually used it on a daily basis (basically as a business)

Edit: i personally use majority swiss tools. Not because i have spare cash, but because i am able to get most tools at a good price.

Last edited by Acidstain; 01-26-2019 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:10 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I went through this very same requirement a few months ago. I already had loads of watchmakers screwdrivers collected, purchased or otherwise gained over 50 years but thought I must have new ones for this watch tinkering lark. So after some research I decided on 2 drivers by Bergeon, their 1.0 and 1.2 mm with a £20 outlay. Now I have them I do do use the 1mm for much of the small screw work on 7548/6309 movements BUT I also use one of my cheapest, a plastic handled drivers which has a 1.6mm blade. It is hardened steel which I have tidied it up by fine stoning and now performs very well. It gets used for breaking the lock and the final nip on most screws because the blade width is ideally suited to the wider slots. The Bergeon 1.2mm gets very little use.

I use a larger driver, with BIG grip, for the rotor screw.

Last edited by DonJ53; 01-29-2019 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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A raised bench is necessary too.



You could made a complete bench (doubt they're available except in rare cases) or made a raised section that goes on a normal table or desk. It
needs to be secured to the desk so it doesn't move.
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Esslinger in the USA are excellent for tools etc



Much better than Cousins etc. Cheap, fast, communicative and their stuff is packed in an Environmentally friendly packaging. Everything that Cousins are not


There is good stuff on ebay etc too
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Esslinger in the USA are excellent for tools etc
Much better than Cousins etc. Cheap, fast, communicative and their stuff is packed in an Environmentally friendly packaging. Everything that Cousins are not
There is good stuff on ebay etc too
The trouble with us UK buyers is that Esslinger are in the USA so by the time you take into account the burnt jet fuel etc etc EF goes out the window. I will add that Cousins appear to use a standard size box for all supplies which sometimes is way over the top for what is ordered. They are copying Amazon.
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzwatchdoctor View Post
Esslinger in the USA are excellent for tools etc [IMG class=inlineimg]/images/smilies/smiley.gif[/IMG]
Much better than Cousins etc. Cheap, fast, communicative and their stuff is packed in an Environmentally friendly packaging. Everything that Cousins are not [IMG class=inlineimg]/images/smilies/sad.gif[/IMG]
There is good stuff on ebay etc too [IMG class=inlineimg]/images/smilies/smiley.gif[/IMG]
The trouble with us UK buyers is that Esslinger are in the USA so by the time you take into account the burnt jet fuel etc etc EF goes out the window. I will add that Cousins appear to use a standard size box for all supplies which sometimes is way over the top for what is ordered. They are copying Amazon.
Most likely it’s because they get the box for free? I know UPS use to give us free boxes for ground shipping.
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gprog View Post
Hi all, I'm really eager to learn how to work on watches and was disappointed to see the "getting started" section under the reference materials and how-to's section just leads me back to the home page. Any comprehensive guides to getting started out there that someone would be kind enough to point me to? One specific thing I'd like is suggestions for better basic tools. My cheap amazon kit hasn't lasted very well from the few Seiko mods I've done. Thanks.
Bergeon makes several Kits, Here is an example:

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Old 01-29-2019, 05:38 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The trouble with us UK buyers is that Esslinger are in the USA so by the time you take into account the burnt jet fuel etc etc EF goes out the window. I will add that Cousins appear to use a standard size box for all supplies which sometimes is way over the top for what is ordered. They are copying Amazon.





I'm in New Zealand.

The last time I got a box of stuff it was $15 US. That's very good and there is no reason to think it would be more to the UK.

Cousins are unlikely to be cheaper - even within the UK.
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Bergeon makes several Kits, Here is an example:








Bergeon are terribly expensive for what they are There are other quality makers (and Chinese case holders etc are fine) that charge less.



Where's the Jaxa (type tool) in this kit?
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Old 01-29-2019, 05:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nzwatchdoctor View Post
Bergeon are terribly expensive for what they are There are other quality makers (and Chinese case holders etc are fine) that charge less.



Where's the Jaxa (type tool) in this kit?
Keyword: Example
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Keyword: Example



Keyphrase for Paul; missed it
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I'm in New Zealand.

The last time I got a box of stuff it was $15 US. That's very good and there is no reason to think it would be more to the UK.

Cousins are unlikely to be cheaper - even within the UK.
I very much doubt it after 20% VAT and handling charges are added.
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Old 02-26-2019, 02:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Hi - I am pretty new to servicing watch movements myself and have now successfully done two full rebuilds on vintage Seiko's. Here are some sites that were extremely helpful to me as well as supply houses for tools and parts.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrz...mXP9opijc7_B_A

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7v...cYq0z8oiYFk0zQ

Tools and Parts

http://www.ofrei.com

https://www.esslinger.com

Thus is a very fun hobby. You just have to do your homework, go slow, and jump in. Good luck with it.
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Buy cheap, buy twice
practise practise practise
read read read read
focus on one movement first probably, a working Seiko wold be best & strip & rebuild continually
make sure its working for over 24 hours after a rebuild EACH time.
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Old 02-26-2019, 07:28 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Lots of good advice here. A few things that worked for me. First, I started with basics such as fixing or adjusting bracelets, removing case backs, uncasing movements. I then progressed to removing crystals, hands, refinishing cases and bracelets and relume on hands. My next step was regulation with the purchase of a time grapher. Next I bought a very inexpensive Seiko 6106 and read up on it as well as watched some videos on servicing this particular movement. A great starting point as this movement is not that complicated. I would take parts of the movement apart and then put it back slowly working deeper and deeper into the movement each time. Finally progressed to a full movement service. Expect to make mistakes. I rebuilt my 6106 at least 3 times before I was happy with how it ran. You are going to need some good magnification for this work. Invest in a nice Optivisor 3x or 4x or something similar. You are also going to need a 10X loop eyepiece for servicing jewels and oiling. In my personal opinion, you need a time grapher to determine how the movement is running pre and post service. This tool will also be vital for regulating the watch, measuring amplitude and beat error post service which are vital to keeping consistent and accurate time.
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