Seiko Gurus! Need help with some 6139 troubleshooting - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 11-01-2015, 12:25 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Seiko Gurus! Need help with some 6139 troubleshooting

Hey guys, I've been a long time lingerer, and this website has in no small part been fueling my recent Seiko obsession. But I finally decided to register today to get some much needed assistance with one of my 6139s.

I recently got my hands on an original 6139-6005 black dial for my Seiko FrankenPogue (6002 case with a 7030 dial), so I went to my watchmaker to change the dial. He got it done within about 30 minutes, and I went home a happy camper.

However, on reaching home, I realised that it had stopped running, both the chronograph hands as well as the main minute and hour hands. Figuring the spring must have run out, I tried shaking it, to no avail. I then reset the chronograph (I always keep my 6139s running), and voila, it's running again.

Unfortunately, it stopped again just a few minutes later, and only restarting after resetting my chronograph. I then noticed that every time it stopped, it would stop with the chronograph seconds at 58 and the minute counter at 7 minutes. Starting and stopping the chronograph, without resetting it, would make the seconds hand move back and forth a tiny bit, but it would not continue to run unless it was reset. And if I left the watch without the chrongraph engaged, the watch would continue to run with no problems.

It's now been with my watchmaker for the past week, but he says that he can't find what's wrong with it. According to him, everything appears to be correct and clean, and he can't isolate the source of this problem. I've given him the old dial, hoping that may somehow fix it, even if that seems unlikely.

Has anyone here encountered this sort of a problem before? Or any idea what the problem might be? I'd initially thought it might be a mainspring issue, but I don't think that would cause it to consistently get stuck at the 7 minute mark on the chronograph counter?

Thanks a bunch guys, I hope to be able to post up pictures of my Seikos once I manage to get them all under one roof again.
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Old 11-01-2015, 01:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
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my guess is the minute counter wheel (or intermediate minute wheel) either has a bent tooth (bad) or a foreign object stuck (not so bad) at the point where it would normally be engaged by the chrono finger at 7 minutes and 58 secs.

probably not the centre chrono wheel since it is able to turn fully for 7 minutes.
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Old 11-01-2015, 02:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks, I'll ask my watch guy to look out for that. Hopefully it's the latter and not a bent tooth

The thing that gets me is that it was fully functional before I decided to meddle with it. My watchmaker said he simply removed the hands, switched out the dials and replaced the hands. I don't know what could have happened to it during this seemingly simple procedure.

I kinda regret it now. Maybe I shouldn't have been pursuing my dream of an original 6002. Should have just been happy with my little FrankenPogue

A picture from a happier time:
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Old 11-01-2015, 03:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I must say I am not a 6139 expert, maybe someone with more experience might shed more light
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Old 11-01-2015, 04:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Your watchmaker should check the clearance of the minute recording hand with the sub dial. The minute recording hand can run very close to the dial and removing and refitting can make it sit even closer, too close.
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Old 11-02-2015, 06:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks guys, I've spoken to my watchmaker and he's suspecting something similar, which is why he asked for the old dial back. Though he blames the dial and not his own handiwork, of course.

I'll keep you guys updated on what happens. Thanks again, mates!
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Old 11-04-2015, 02:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyc View Post
Your watchmaker should check the clearance of the minute recording hand with the sub dial. The minute recording hand can run very close to the dial and removing and refitting can make it sit even closer, too close.
I second that diagnosis. i just went though this with a navigator 6117B that i serviced. It would run for about 15 minutes and stop over and over. It ended up being that at one point someone installed the wrong 24 hour red hand. There are two designs. One is flat for the design without the inner rotating bezel. The other has a double bend in it for the 24 hour hand to clear the indices that it passes over. Someone took the double bend hand and had flattened it out to install it on the watch. i noticed it was a little beat up looking when i reinstalled it but not until the watch kept stopping after I rebuilt the movement did I remove it and examined it very closely and notice how bend up it was. I spend some time doing a better job of making it flat and now the watch runs perfect. I would almost guarantee you have some hand rub going on there. Especially since that dial and hand set are a custom combination.

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Old 11-05-2015, 08:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyc View Post
Your watchmaker should check the clearance of the minute recording hand with the sub dial. The minute recording hand can run very close to the dial and removing and refitting can make it sit even closer, too close.

I'd agree with mike and also mention that if the dial isn't fitted snugly enough on the dial ring and movement it could also cause the sub register hand to rub the dial.
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Well, the strange thing here is that it functioned just fine on the old dial, ie: the wrong one you see in the picture above. The new dial is the correct dial for this watch, and yet the problem has only started with the new dial.

I'm guessing you guys are right and he probably didn't seat it right. Hoping he resolves it soon, it's been almost 3 weeks since this fiasco first started

Man, to think that I'd wanted him to service my minty 6139-7030. I'm afraid to think of what he might have done with a full service. Guess I'm gonna have to save up for a real professional to service these rare old beauties.
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Old 11-08-2015, 03:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Hey guys,

Just a quick update. I contacted my watchmaker again, and he said he's having the same problem even with the blue dial reattached. He's asked me for more time and has reassured to me that he'll get it fixed.

Sounds like he mucked up something real bad when switching the hands over :/ I'm beginning to get worried about this, it's been the better part of a month already.

Ah well, not much I can do now but wait eh? I'll keep you guys posted.
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Old 11-12-2015, 05:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Some good news!

Just got a call from my watchmaker, telling me he's solved the problem. He says the... hole where the minute counter hand is attached to the movement was slightly uneven. He corrected the irregularity, and now the movement is running swimmingly

Thanks again guys for all the help.

Here's a picture of the watch as it is now. Probably going to change the crystal next, and then it'll be done
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Old 11-12-2015, 09:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I am glad it is resolved. For the record bent dial feet can cause the hole in the dial for the minute recording hand shaft to run out of concentricity. You just need to tweak them to sort it out.
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:35 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Seiko Gurus! Need help with some 6139 troubleshooting

PhantomThief-

Another great example of the value of this forum. Phantom, I truly believe you should take note of the members you got invaluable info from in this thread. There are some amazingly talented watchsmiths here and would undoubtedly be available to take on some of your future projects given time and location restraints. I for one would recommend them highly if their work load permitted. Just ask around, I think you would be much better served here than you have been in your recent experience. I wish you the best and look forward to updates and future pictures of your beauties !
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Old 11-13-2015, 01:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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PhantomThief-

Another great example of the value of this forum. Phantom, I truly believe you should take note of the members you got invaluable info from in this thread. There are some amazingly talented watchsmiths here and would undoubtedly be available to take on some of your future projects given time and location restraints. I for one would recommend them highly if their work load permitted. Just ask around, I think you would be much better served here than you have been in your recent experience. I wish you the best and look forward to updates and future pictures of your beauties !
You're absolutely right, I couldn't be more amazed by the help that's been provided to me, who's basically a stranger here. I really do appreciate all the help that you guys have given to me. I hope to be able to be a part of this community and eventually have something to contribute as well. Even if it does mean I'm going to get more nagging from my other half :P

I've only just started collecting vintage Seikos, and I've made a few mistakes here and there, but fortunately nothing that's been too costly. So far I've got a Grand, a King, 2 Lord Matics, a Lord Marvel and 2 auto chrono 6139s. I hope to add a 6138 and Bell-matic in the near future

Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyc View Post
I am glad it is resolved. For the record bent dial feet can cause the hole in the dial for the minute recording hand shaft to run out of concentricity. You just need to tweak them to sort it out.
Thanks for all your help, I'm very grateful for all the help you've provided
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Not an expert by anymeans but I had the same issue with the second hand getting stuck at about 58sec mark, and the issue was the minute sub dial was not allwoing it to go further.

i let it wind up a bit for an hour or so before running the chrono and then it would go pass the 58 mark and do a full revolution and advance the minute counter.

I was shown a sketch that is a thin spring that presses up against the gear for the subdial and it can just be a little too tight. but the extra force of a fully wound watch could overcome it. one could slightly bend it to relieve the exessive force of the spring but I am not that brave....yet.
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