Zen Presage from Ebay with some issues - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
 
 
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:04 PM  
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Default Zen Presage from Ebay with some issues

Hi, first post ever.

Just bought a "Pre-used Mint Condition" Zen Presage SSA379J1 from ebay by auction for £166 from an Italian who says he is a collector who services the watches himself.

I thought I was onto a bargain as the watch is so difficult to find here in the UK, and the watch did in fact appear to be in mint condition when it arrived.

However, on closer look I did notice two things, when compared to some Youtube unboxings:

1. Logo engraved on the strap clasp is certainly not in the Seiko font, more like Arial.
2. The rotor is stainless steel colour, whereas from looking online it should be gold colour.
However, the text and markings otherwise all seem accurate.

I'm not so bothered about the strap, but the rotor concerned me. I contacted the seller who said he bought it from another watch store and in his own words: "when I bought the watch is want not running the part we talked about it it was faulty he said he did the service and change that part I told him why didn't you tell me this before he accepted he's fault.
He replicate the rotter from the other Seiko"


To explain what is meant by "the other Seiko," he has attached a photo of a black face Seiko with open heart just below a date dial on the left. The word Automatic printed above 6:00, but lacking the word Presage anywhere, so I don't know what model it is. It's certainly not a Zen Presage!

I am not clear if he switched the rotor from another watch or if he means he *replicated* it himself somehow.

Nor do I know if his explanation is plausible or if this is simply a fake. But I thought at this price range it wouldn't be worth it to make a fake?

Either way, my question is do I accept his offer of a refund, or is there any chance I am onto a decent bargain at this price and worth keeping onto. (I am a very beginner watch owner).

Thank you.

Last edited by Spursfan323; 11-12-2019 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:44 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursfan323 View Post
Hi, first post ever.

Just bought a "Pre-used Mint Condition" Zen Presage SSA379J1 from ebay by auction for £166 from an Italian who says he is a collector who services the watches himself.

I thought I was onto a bargain as the watch is so difficult to find here in the UK, and the watch did in fact appear to be in mint condition when it arrived.

However, on closer look I did notice two things, when compared to some Youtube unboxings:

1. Logo engraved on the strap clasp is certainly not in the Seiko font, more like Arial.
2. The rotor is stainless steel colour, whereas from looking online it should be gold colour.
However, the text and markings otherwise all seem accurate.

I'm not so bothered about the strap, but the rotor concerned me. I contacted the seller who said he bought it from another watch store and in his own words: "when I bought the watch is want not running the part we talked about it it was faulty he said he did the service and change that part I told him why didn't you tell me this before he accepted he's fault.
He replicate the rotter from the other Seiko"


To explain what is meant by "the other Seiko," he has attached a photo of a black face Seiko with open heart just below a date dial on the left. The word Automatic printed above 6:00, but lacking the word Presage anywhere, so I don't know what model it is. It's certainly not a Zen Presage!

I am not clear if he switched the rotor from another watch or if he means he *replicated* it himself somehow.

Nor do I know if his explanation is plausible or if this is simply a fake. But I thought at this price range it wouldn't be worth it to make a fake?

Either way, my question is do I accept his offer of a refund, or is there any chance I am onto a decent bargain at this price and worth keeping onto. (I am a very beginner watch owner).

Thank you.
There are a lot of these on eBay being sold that are fakes.
If you bought this thinking it was an original then you have been taken. \\\\at best this is just a cobbled together Franken and at worst, it is a complete fake.
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:26 PM  
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Default Zen Presage from Ebay with some issues

If you could post some photos it’s easier to determine.

However, especially on Ebay, if it sounds too good to be true, it is too good to be true. A £500 watch for 166 is definitely too good to be true.


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Last edited by Apenut86; 11-12-2019 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:47 PM  
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I'll post some photos as soon as I'm on to my 5 first posts as a new member.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:49 PM  
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He had about 50 bids on the watch so it seemed legit, although now that I think back, interestingly he had set it to list all bids as private. Maybe they were just other accounts he was managing- or maybe I am letting my imagination run away with me.
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:17 PM  
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Just send it back .
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:21 PM  
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Presage without a gold rotor -> fake. You see them on ebay from chinese and indian sellers. Case fake, strap fake, dial fake. Im not sure what movements they use, either NH3x's and replace the rotor or maybe they were able to buy 4r3x's. But this is a replica watch, file a paypal claim and return the watch.

COYS
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:36 PM  
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Presage without a gold rotor -> fake. You see them on ebay from chinese and indian sellers. Case fake, strap fake, dial fake. Im not sure what movements they use, either NH3x's and replace the rotor or maybe they were able to buy 4r3x's. But this is a replica watch, file a paypal claim and return the watch.

COYS [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.thewatchsite.com/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
According to the listing, it has a 4R39 movement, although what it actually has in anyone's guess.

Credit to the seller so far he has agreed to accept a return and seems genuinely apologetic. I'm waiting for him to send me a postage label so can send back to Italy.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:11 PM  
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According to the listing, it has a 4R39 movement, although what it actually has in anyone's guess.

Credit to the seller so far he has agreed to accept a return and seems genuinely apologetic. I'm waiting for him to send me a postage label so can send back to Italy.
If you are sending it to Italy, be sure to have it insured for 166 + postage, unless he pays for postage, I say this because he could say, dude I never got it etc,
It happened to me, I learned my lesson, now I send everything special delivery, rather loose 20+ quid than 100 and a bit and the watch I sent back.

Still would be nice to see the pictures of that watch in here, if you can upload them.

Good luck
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:22 PM  
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:05 PM  
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I'm waiting for my 5th post to be recorded so I can attach the photos...sigh....
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:11 PM  
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Finally!!
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:12 PM  
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And here's the photo of the one he claims the rotor was "replicated" from....

Has a Presage tag hanging off it, but I don't recognise it as a Presage nor does it state Presage on the watch face anywhere.
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File Type: jpg Screenshot_20191113-020850_eBay_1573611094297.jpg (842.5 KB, 27 views)
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:24 PM  
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Are you discussing the issue via a Paypal claim, item not as described. If not, you really should irrespective of how friendly the seller is.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:29 PM  
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That’s an SSA157 open heart
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:44 PM  
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Hmm these pictures is how it should look,
Let's see what the other guys think about this one
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File Type: jpg Zen2.jpg (108.3 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg ZEN1.jpg (315.5 KB, 10 views)
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:48 PM  
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Stay with PayPal claim and return it.
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Old 11-13-2019, 04:28 AM  
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Quote:
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Stay with PayPal claim and return it.
I was a bit cautious so I paid with credit card via PayPal for added comeback. Do I wait to see if he resolves it himself as he is indicating, or do I anyway open a case - and if yes, with who? eBay/PayPal/credit card?

Basically I am wondering if he definitely knew....
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Old 11-13-2019, 04:33 AM  
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That’s an SSA157 open heart
does it come in black?
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Old 11-13-2019, 04:41 AM  
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I was a bit cautious so I paid with credit card via PayPal for added comeback. Do I wait to see if he resolves it himself as he is indicating, or do I anyway open a case - and if yes, with who? eBay/PayPal/credit card?

Basically I am wondering if he definitely knew....
I don't understand 'paid with credit card via paypal'. I assume your Paypal account has the credit card as its initial reserve. If so then you are safe. YES open a claim NOW. What you must be aware of is that MOST credit cards DONT support a direct claim on them if linked to Paypal. You gotta go through Paypal.

My gut feeling, because I know for definite that India has copied* the SRPB041/043, is that this is not a copy but a repaired JDM model. Nonetheless return it.

* I use the term copied lightly because I strongly believe SEIKO has a hand in supplying the parts because they are too dam close to OEM. Especially the dials. I know the dials can be bought separately because they have appeard on ebay in SEIKO packaging. The MAJOR BIG ISSUE is that all their case backs have the same serial number, be they blue & white dials or the gold/silver case versions.

Last edited by DonJ53; 11-13-2019 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 11-13-2019, 04:42 AM  
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Quote:
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does it come in black?


That would be the SSA159. And they do in fact come with silver coloured rotor...


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Old 11-13-2019, 08:02 AM  
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Update: I opened a Return case on ebay, which he accepted.

Then I get a message on ebay: "The seller can't send a return postage label. Hello xxx, Seller xxxxxxxxxx let us know that they can't buy a return postage label for you to return PRE-USED SEIKO PRESAGE . The seller is responsible for return postage costs, so contact them to arrange return postage."

He asked for my email address, which I gave him, to which he has sent an authentic looking label for a DHL Express Worldwide return. He is based in Italy after all.

Having heard of scams where the seller denies receipt and the refund is refused, should I should insist on an return label within ebay? Or is there some other way I can cover myself?

Thanks, and sorry for embroiling you in this laborious saga!
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:36 AM  
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Sounds like he is being helpful. Photograph it going into the package and the complete package. Perhaps have a witness or phone video yourself packaging it.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:56 AM  
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Sounds like he is being helpful. Photograph it going into the package and the complete package. Perhaps have a witness or phone video yourself packaging it.
I don't think that will help if I'm not being seen to follow official eBay protocol.

However it could be that for international postage one cannot generate an eBay return label....anyone know?
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:35 PM  
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Once you have the label phone DHL and check the ref/tracking number is authentic.
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