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**TheTigerUK** · 11-07-2019, 01:48 PM

or any watch not what it pertains to be for that matter ?

By this I mean how much after market/fake parts do we or will we accept before we can no longer accept our original Seiko (any watch) is an "original" example ?

Personally for me after market/generic gaskets, crystals even some inserts are acceptable but thats about it.

For me even if the parts/spares are stupidly expensive but still available how ever long the search I would go for them or go without rather than fit a after market/fake part.

I can see the day coming where the only option will be after market parts if you want to make a watch look usable but still won't be for me, I would rather go without, anal perhaps but i've been called a lot worse

mwadner · 11-07-2019, 01:56 PM

Hi John - I think these two images sum up your thread.

However, I think original movement + original case qualify the watch as a Seiko. Those are the two main components IMO. Hands, dial and crown could be considered consumable items based upon how they seem to wear heavier than other parts of the watch and often need replacing.

I think the bigger question (and with heated debate) comes down to what is considered an "original Seiko".

DonJ53 · 11-07-2019, 02:00 PM

I would say we have to use non OEM gaskets.

Crystals/glass are difficult because we don't really know if they are original or OEM even. I only replace when the old is beyond repair and refinish where possible.

A 3rd party dial would kill it for me BUT replacing a damaged OEM dial with a close OEM equivalent dial, well I have done it once but only when absolutely to only option.

As for movement parts well I would fit OEM from another movement.

vynster · 11-07-2019, 02:03 PM

For me the movement and case hands dial inserts need to be original, the bracelet \ strap are marginal, the crystal \ gaskets i will accept as A.M. Call me picky

DAHASCO · 11-07-2019, 02:12 PM

Anything more than gaskets and crystal....I'll live with the rest being original Seiko. A watch doesn't have to look new for me.

MR.YODA · 11-07-2019, 02:27 PM

If this is a vintage watch, then I allow the exchange of the original crown, glass, gasket, mass, and small parts of the mechanism.
Bracelet, of course, too.

bbilford83 · 11-07-2019, 02:34 PM

Forgive my nerdiness, but we're far from the first to ask this question outside of the watch context. See here.

I'm among those who generally won't replace anything other than a bracelet/strap with anything non-OEM - keeps things simpler even if harder!

IAmTheClayman · 11-07-2019, 02:37 PM

This is the watch fan’s equivalent of the old philosophical problem about replacing every piece of timber on a ship haha.

That being said I’m of the opinion that AM gaskets, crystals and (for applicable models) pusher springs are acceptable. Also bracelets if we’re considering those, as I’ve had some bad luck with original bracelet quality

MR.YODA · 11-07-2019, 02:55 PM

Original Seiko are only those made in Japan, those made in China are fakes (a joke)

These are only items, with time their parts are destroyed, and the original ones are missing on the market.
The one with the replaced parts will still be Seiko, only less worth than 100% original.

7s26b · 11-07-2019, 03:41 PM

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:/...71rhxg2FxApfwK

Sent from my BV8000Pro using Tapatalk

SeikoPsycho2 · 11-07-2019, 06:19 PM

I've still got the original gas and oil in my 67 Camaro and the Paint is old and dull but It's all original I tell Ya!

Kidding aside, Original parts are great but I have no problem replacing normal wear parts like crystals + gaskets with "Good Quality" replacement parts. Replacement dials, hands, and bezel inserts are a last resort and I refrain from using them.

Jim W · 11-08-2019, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeikoPsycho2

I've still got the original gas and oil in my 67 Camaro and the Paint is old and dull but It's all original I tell Ya!

Kidding aside, Original parts are great but I have no problem replacing normal wear parts like crystals + gaskets with "Good Quality" replacement parts. Replacement dials, hands, and bezel inserts are a last resort and I refrain from using them.

I'm with you on this, except I don't own a 67 Camaro. (but I do own a lovely 1970 Dodge Challenger Convertible

)

The only red line for me is dials. I will never accept an am (fake) dial. That's it. I think the aftermarket offers a great service for other items when the quality is right. (similar with classic cars)

GuyJ · 11-08-2019, 07:48 AM

As soon as anything is replaced it is no longer original to itself, and if not a Seiko part, no longer original. Even gaskets, spring bars, crystals, spring balls. It is restored. Those that think changing a crystal is fine but a relume or bezel change isn't, are hypocrites.

nzwatchdoctor · 11-08-2019, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim W

I'm with you on this, except I don't own a 67 Camaro. (but I do own a lovely 1970 Dodge Challenger Convertible

)

The only red line for me is dials. I will never accept an am (fake) dial. That's it. I think the aftermarket offers a great service for other items when the quality is right. (similar with classic cars)

Agreed re AM. It's a boon for Seikos etc as long as people are honest about them.

nzwatchdoctor · 11-08-2019, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyJ

As soon as anything is replaced it is no longer original to itself, and if not a Seiko part, no longer original. Even gaskets, spring bars, crystals, spring balls. It is restored. Those that think changing a crystal is fine but a relume or bezel change isn't, are hypocrites.

Agreed too

I guess some of us have an idea that what can be seen as a service item (s/bars, battery, strap, seals, glass.....etc) can be ok to replace and the watch still be "original".

koekoek · 11-08-2019, 06:20 PM

If it has anything on it with the Seiko logo that Seiko didnt make. So dial, case and movement.

koekoek · 11-08-2019, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyJ

As soon as anything is replaced it is no longer original to itself, and if not a Seiko part, no longer original. Even gaskets, spring bars, crystals, spring balls. It is restored. Those that think changing a crystal is fine but a relume or bezel change isn't, are hypocrites.

Depends weather it is an AM crystal or OEM crystal, that makes a vital difference in your example. I prefer a (lightly) scratched original crystal over an AM one. But i think crystals have always been kind of made as a "consumable" item meant to be changed out. If you look at the number of NOS crystals that Seiko made vs the number of NOS bezels or dials for example, there are a lot more crystals on the market.

Gaskets and spring bars are a whole different story because those are used to keep the watch safe from falling off your wrist and protect against moisture. So for the sake of longevity they should be changed every once in a while. That more than justifies chaging those parts out.

MR.YODA · 11-08-2019, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyJ

As soon as anything is replaced it is no longer original to itself, and if not a Seiko part, no longer original. Even gaskets, spring bars, crystals, spring balls. It is restored. Those that think changing a crystal is fine but a relume or bezel change isn't, are hypocrites.

Well, it's not original, nobody denies it ...
The title of the topic is different

....
it's still Seiko ... with a non-original crystal, bracelet ....

If a man insert a pacemaker, he ceases to be an "original man"?

nzwatchdoctor · 11-08-2019, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR.YODA

Well, it's not original, nobody denies it ...
The title of the topic is different

....
it's still Seiko ... with a non-original crystal, bracelet ....

If a man insert a pacemaker, he ceases to be an "original man"?

"If a man insert a pacemaker," and it's his own body....he's a super man!!

MR.YODA · 11-08-2019, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nzwatchdoctor

"If a man insert a pacemaker," and it's his own body....he's a super man!!

Full consent my friend!

I bought a Japanese knife (Myiabi), I bought a Japanese watch (Seiko), I also bought a Japanese lighter (Corona)
What connects these items?

And they were all made in China ....
Such times .... nomen omen

zeke441 · 11-08-2019, 08:42 PM

Normal service parts like gaskets, even a crystal or changing a strap is still a Seiko. Those are wear and tear consumable items. Like changing gaskets, brake liners, etc. in a vintage car. Those are parts that are meant to be replaced, need to be replaced on a regular schedule. The moment you put in after market parts it becomes a mod. Like a dial, insert, etc
Incorrect Seiko parts and it's a Franken. My opinion anyways.

59yukon01 · 11-08-2019, 09:59 PM

My personal preference is pure stock on the watch, with the exception of different straps/bracelets.

This is not a knock on those who like and do mods as I've seen some very subtle and tastefully done ones, but once it doesn't resemble the stock from which it started, it's no longer a Seiko imo.

Seiko Hoarder · 11-08-2019, 11:54 PM

I remember Guy bringing up the ship of Theseus the last time this came up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyJ

Ah but then that watch wouldn't be original.

I'm being facetious, I know. But the Ship of Theseus, or Trigger's Broom, is an interesting quandary.

I agree though Paul, being able to source movement parts at the least would be great if still possible, let alone knowing Seiko could do it with genuine replacements. But like John's thread about standardisation and as David says, that foresight wasn't there and I'd imagine it is simply not possible to do this.

I also think they are making enough money as things stand.

Paradox Tuesday - Theseus' Paradox - YouTube

11-07-2019, 01:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
TheTigerUK Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: UK Posts: 27,667 Points: 588 (+)	When is a Seiko not a Seiko ? or any watch not what it pertains to be for that matter ? By this I mean how much after market/fake parts do we or will we accept before we can no longer accept our original Seiko (any watch) is an "original" example ? Personally for me after market/generic gaskets, crystals even some inserts are acceptable but thats about it. For me even if the parts/spares are stupidly expensive but still available how ever long the search I would go for them or go without rather than fit a after market/fake part. I can see the day coming where the only option will be after market parts if you want to make a watch look usable but still won't be for me, I would rather go without, anal perhaps but i've been called a lot worse __________________ www.TheTigerUK.com It's nothing to do with what you need it's what you want !!

11-07-2019, 02:03 PM	#4 (permalink)
vynster "The Prospector" Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Colchester Essex England Posts: 3,906 Points: 225 (+)	For me the movement and case hands dial inserts need to be original, the bracelet \ strap are marginal, the crystal \ gaskets i will accept as A.M. Call me picky Last edited by vynster; 11-07-2019 at 02:09 PM.

11-07-2019, 02:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
DAHASCO Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 23,940 Points: 312 (+)	Anything more than gaskets and crystal....I'll live with the rest being original Seiko. A watch doesn't have to look new for me. __________________ Thanks, D

11-07-2019, 02:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
MR.YODA Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: POLAND Posts: 557 Points: 46 (+)	If this is a vintage watch, then I allow the exchange of the original crown, glass, gasket, mass, and small parts of the mechanism. Bracelet, of course, too. __________________ My time zone https://time.is/pl/Lublin

11-07-2019, 02:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
MR.YODA Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: POLAND Posts: 557 Points: 46 (+)	Original Seiko are only those made in Japan, those made in China are fakes (a joke) These are only items, with time their parts are destroyed, and the original ones are missing on the market. The one with the replaced parts will still be Seiko, only less worth than 100% original. __________________ My time zone https://time.is/pl/Lublin

11-07-2019, 02:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
DonJ53 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,637 Points: 158 (+)	I would say we have to use non OEM gaskets. Crystals/glass are difficult because we don't really know if they are original or OEM even. I only replace when the old is beyond repair and refinish where possible. A 3rd party dial would kill it for me BUT replacing a damaged OEM dial with a close OEM equivalent dial, well I have done it once but only when absolutely to only option. As for movement parts well I would fit OEM from another movement.

11-07-2019, 02:34 PM	#7 (permalink)
bbilford83 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 574 Points: 33 (+)	Forgive my nerdiness, but we're far from the first to ask this question outside of the watch context. See here. I'm among those who generally won't replace anything other than a bracelet/strap with anything non-OEM - keeps things simpler even if harder!

11-07-2019, 02:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
IAmTheClayman Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 117 Points: 4 (+)	This is the watch fan’s equivalent of the old philosophical problem about replacing every piece of timber on a ship haha. That being said I’m of the opinion that AM gaskets, crystals and (for applicable models) pusher springs are acceptable. Also bracelets if we’re considering those, as I’ve had some bad luck with original bracelet quality

11-07-2019, 03:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
7s26b Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,214 Points: 35 (+)	https://www.google.com/url?q=https:/...71rhxg2FxApfwK Sent from my BV8000Pro using Tapatalk __________________ A baby sardine saw it's first submarine - it was scared and watched through a peephole. Oh come,come,come, said the sardine's mum - it's only a tinful of people. (S.Milligan)

11-07-2019, 06:19 PM	#11 (permalink)
SeikoPsycho2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NE PA Posts: 3,334 Points: 113 (+)	I've still got the original gas and oil in my 67 Camaro and the Paint is old and dull but It's all original I tell Ya! Kidding aside, Original parts are great but I have no problem replacing normal wear parts like crystals + gaskets with "Good Quality" replacement parts. Replacement dials, hands, and bezel inserts are a last resort and I refrain from using them. __________________ Too Many Watches - Not Enough Time... Gracefully Delivered from Delusions.......... It's not about Religion, It's about a Relationship........ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjcsMZRXqCc Last edited by SeikoPsycho2; 11-07-2019 at 08:48 PM.

11-08-2019, 07:48 AM	#13 (permalink)
GuyJ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: North East Posts: 7,405 Points: 380 (+)	As soon as anything is replaced it is no longer original to itself, and if not a Seiko part, no longer original. Even gaskets, spring bars, crystals, spring balls. It is restored. Those that think changing a crystal is fine but a relume or bezel change isn't, are hypocrites. __________________ @rexworthywatches

11-08-2019, 06:20 PM	#16 (permalink)
koekoek Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,904 Points: 66 (+)	If it has anything on it with the Seiko logo that Seiko didnt make. So dial, case and movement.

11-08-2019, 08:42 PM	#21 (permalink)
zeke441 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Tennessee USA Posts: 4,085 Points: 368 (+)	Normal service parts like gaskets, even a crystal or changing a strap is still a Seiko. Those are wear and tear consumable items. Like changing gaskets, brake liners, etc. in a vintage car. Those are parts that are meant to be replaced, need to be replaced on a regular schedule. The moment you put in after market parts it becomes a mod. Like a dial, insert, etc Incorrect Seiko parts and it's a Franken. My opinion anyways. __________________ "A man that wears a watch shows that being on time is important" Pops - 1979 when he gave me my 1st real watch. Seiko Saviors Last edited by zeke441; 11-08-2019 at 08:51 PM.

11-08-2019, 09:59 PM	#22 (permalink)
59yukon01 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 4,017 Points: 159 (+)	My personal preference is pure stock on the watch, with the exception of different straps/bracelets. This is not a knock on those who like and do mods as I've seen some very subtle and tastefully done ones, but once it doesn't resemble the stock from which it started, it's no longer a Seiko imo. __________________ David Last edited by 59yukon01; 11-08-2019 at 10:32 PM.

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