6139 Coke Relume and Issue - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-27-2019, 12:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
GuyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North East
Posts: 7,423
Points: 383 (+)
Default 6139 Coke Relume and Issue

I got this on my bench mat the other week, I've always wanted one. This wasn't to stay with me for long, though after sitting waiting for me to tackle it as the owner chose me to do a relume and get it serviced. It was overhauled a year or so ago but had an issue where the chrono would stop at 58 quite often. On the TG the trace would show a a fairly large climb in rate at minute changeover as the hand passes 12 o'clock and the minute register ticks over. I thought it would likely be too much tension on the minute counter spring or the chrono arm not hitting the intermediate minute counting wheel correctly.

It looked really good and I do like these 6139s.



Hands and dial had some blackening, it wasn't terrible mind you so those who hate to see lume get lumed....well, sorry!

After the removal I got a pretty cool colour and texture.



One of the minute markers.



The dial came out really nicely I reckon, got it close to the original look with a bit of an old aged look maybe? Pretty happy anyway.



In different light.



And glowing, but not too bright and doesn't last very long.







Movement was stripped and cleaned and it all went together well, my main concerns being that the power reserve and rates were good and with some testing the watch would sit and keep time and not have any issues with the stallling chrono hand.



The 6139A plate differs from the B and one of these differences is the intermediate minute counting wheel, the B is removable whereas these are staked into the chrono bridge.

Anyway the movement also came out looking really nice.





It was sent back, job done...however, the owner reported back after a day or two to say the chrono was again stopping. Shit! I immediately thought power reserve but they were wearing it all day and so it was back to what I had a suspicion of and it was that the int wheel here wasn't quite right. I haven't done an A, infact that's a lie I did strip and rebuild one about 3 years ago as a test but I've only done 6138s and 6139Bs recently, and although can be tricky they're really cool to work on.

Well so here we are, it was sent back and I wanted to get a closer look at the minute counter wheel and the intermediate wheel, at which point I had to try and clean it even further to see what was what and how it would perform. Ran well again but soon stopped once I woke in the morning. Well, despite the somewhat better trace on the timegrapher and a less significant jump, even compared to the first overhaul, I staked the sucker out, cleaned and reinstalled.



And so here it is free from the bridge.

I found fibers that had wrapped around the staff and dirt under x35 that was finally removed. I staked it back in place, and this time a little tighter as I wasn't too pleased with the play of the wheel, careful not to overdo it, as reading the tech guide it does mention it should freely move with the stroke of a brush of course.

Once it was done I could now see it happily wheel itself around with just a puff of air, much better and much more what I would expect. I checked to see the trace and could barely notice the minute changeover affect amp or rate.

At a low wind I tested to see if it would have any issues, as it gets to the third 0 on the display below this is when the changeover occurs. I let it do this for a while and all seemed well. Full wind was giving around 240 to 250+ amp and so I was happy to send it back again. Lot of learning and testing and it certainly keeps me busy!

https://i.imgur.com/7ek1qsc.gifv

Phew!



Missed this place and posting threads, but big thanks to all of you who keep me learning and progressing and supporting me with sending me stuff to work on, it really means a lot.
__________________
@rexworthywatches

Last edited by GuyJ; 09-27-2019 at 12:06 AM.
GuyJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following Member Awarded A Point to GuyJ For This Useful Post:
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-27-2019, 12:04 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Grammarofdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: US of A
Posts: 4,862
Points: 255 (+)
Default

Once again Guy there is only one word - AMAZING !!!
Grammarofdesign is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 12:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
GuyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North East
Posts: 7,423
Points: 383 (+)
Default

Thank you Jon. Just wish I could have kept it.
__________________
@rexworthywatches
GuyJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-27-2019, 12:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 3,097
Points: 48 (+)
Default

Excellent work and write up Guy


Something for me to bare in mind.
__________________
Paul ;-)
nzwatchdoctor is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 01:05 AM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
zeke441's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 4,120
Points: 370 (+)
Default

Great job figuring out the issue. I hate when everything is done right and a puzzling issue remains that has you scratching your head. Looks fantastic too!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
__________________
"A man that wears a watch shows that being on time is important"
Pops - 1979 when he gave me my 1st real watch.

Seiko Saviors
zeke441 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 01:29 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 1,756
Points: 60 (+)
Default

That's amazing work Jonas. Well done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
tritto is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 01:32 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
EDBOner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: SEA
Posts: 471
Points: 39 (+)
Default

Yes, that was really amazing!...I could imagine the immense joy this great accomplishment brought you.
__________________
EDBOner
"Begin with the end in mind."
EDBOner is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 02:07 AM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Reflex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 4,899
Points: 88 (+)
Default

Another excellent job on a very nice watch that should be good to go for a long while
Reflex is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 02:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
Special Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,235
Points: 75 (+)
Default

I guess what I'd like to say here is that Guy has such a gift when it comes to these restorations.. but even more wonderful is the way he explains the work as he goes along.

I think it's his way of writing and expressing himself that is such a rare treat and whenever I read one of these threads, I come away feeling such an understanding of things... almost as if I had worked on it myself...and when he discovers something overlooked at first, I find myself saying "of course, the hairspring"... it's like it makes total sense!

Is it just me? Or has anyone else experienced this?

Great work Guy!

Best, as always,

Mike
Aquaman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 03:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
imexian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Sileby, near Loughborough Leicestershire
Posts: 534
Points: 28 (+)
Default

Great job, and yep those speed timers are Uber cool!
imexian is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 04:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
Moderator
 
TheTigerUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 27,708
Points: 594 (+)
Default

Impressive work Guy, we are lucky to have the members who can sort our vintage watches out like we have.
__________________


It's nothing to do with what you need it's what you want !!


TheTigerUK is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 04:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Mr.Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 4,742
Points: 297 (+)
Default

Very nice work, Guy!
Mr.Jones is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 05:02 AM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,439
Points: 56 (+)
Default

Nicely done Guy (was just going to PM you, have sent a chap with a 6306 your way)

They’re great movements but trouble shooting can be real hard on them sometimes. I even get watch repairers send me these (and bellmatics) as they don’t like doing them. Seemed strange to me at first but get an awkward one and I guess it just doesn’t make sense to bother with them time-wise. Now when I service a vintage Omega or something it’s just like a breath of fresh air.

A straight forward one that’s working fine will usually go fine but get a non runner and chase a previous issue and they can really suck time. One I’m doing at the moment came to me as a non runner and it’s full of fibres! Strangely there was even a huge ball of it on top of the diashock under the dial! Work that one out. Balance cock was bent down, hair spring wonky. I Inspected everything, hand cleaned, US cleaned and reassembled and it doesn’t want to run more than 210° at rest. Just about to strip it back down.

One thing I try to do is resist the temptation to get the watch back to the customer too quickly, especially chronographs. I’d like to have them for at least a week after service and have them on the whirly winder, take off, note time and date, run down etc do that a couple of times.
uncleluck is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 05:03 AM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
GuyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North East
Posts: 7,423
Points: 383 (+)
Default

Cheers all! Mike, I dunno about that, I always think I make no sense!

Very true John lots of talent and knowledge on here indeed. Also want to shout out to Noah who has been a super help at times of need, thanks Noah.
__________________
@rexworthywatches
GuyJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 05:20 AM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
GuyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North East
Posts: 7,423
Points: 383 (+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleluck View Post
Nicely done Guy (was just going to PM you, have sent a chap with a 6306 your way)

They’re great movements but trouble shooting can be real hard on them sometimes. I even get watch repairers send me these (and bellmatics) as they don’t like doing them. Seemed strange to me at first but get an awkward one and I guess it just doesn’t make sense to bother with them time-wise. Now when I service a vintage Omega or something it’s just like a breath of fresh air.

A straight forward one that’s working fine will usually go fine but get a non runner and chase a previous issue and they can really suck time. One I’m doing at the moment came to me as a non runner and it’s full of fibres! Strangely there was even a huge ball of it on top of the diashock under the dial! Work that one out. Balance cock was bent down, hair spring wonky. I Inspected everything, hand cleaned, US cleaned and reassembled and it doesn’t want to run more than 210° at rest. Just about to strip it back down.

One thing I try to do is resist the temptation to get the watch back to the customer too quickly, especially chronographs. I’d like to have them for at least a week after service and have them on the whirly winder, take off, note time and date, run down etc do that a couple of times.

Thanks James.

Yup whether it's the hammer click, hammer surfaces, eccentric screws on the B and the alignment, tension spring, chrono slip, hand tube shape, all of it takes a lot of focus.
As for the low amp I wish you well with it on yours. Had a 6309 here the other day where amp was low and so I adjusted end float of train and barrel bridge barrel arbor, centre wheel jewel and I seem to recall escape and it started going much much better. I think there was too much play on the barrel and the centre wheel jewel was very slightly out of angle and so needed levelling. Took some time that one but all was well in the end. I've been going by delta of rates and power reserve as testaments to the health of a movement more, I think Noah explained this to me in relation to the amp of a certain movement that Seiko stated as anything around 190 amp was good, so that is something I also bear in mind at times.

The other thing I think I was concerned about for awhile is the depth to lock which bleeds off power, I toyed with the idea of playing with this at times but it would seem compared to swiss movements these are "king of the deep lock", maybe stones that are too deep are an issue on yours however? When I put a bulova together after a careful clean and slight adjustment of the hairspring, it gave me 315 amp and just worked.....Seiko are great but sometimes they can be a real pain!
__________________
@rexworthywatches
GuyJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 05:43 AM   #16 (permalink)
Special Member
 
bigbluekyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I am a Russian Troll :)
Posts: 2,034
Points: 88 (+)
Default

Always amazed at the skills and experience needed in order to be able to do this very detailed and time consuming work. Beautiful Work Guy and the Speed-Timer looks Superb!

We are Extremely Lucky to have Guy working on our Watches and especially our Dials!

Last edited by bigbluekyle; 09-27-2019 at 12:49 PM.
bigbluekyle is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 06:47 AM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: SL
Posts: 299
Points: 4 (+)
Default

That's beautiful Guy! This is my favourite model of the 6139 too, should look for one before it becomes unobtainable!
jay48 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 06:56 AM   #18 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
SeaCreechur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Smithfield, NC
Posts: 1,947
Points: 168 (+)
Default

Very nice work Guy...it would of gone very well with the hat.

Michael
SeaCreechur is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 09:29 AM   #19 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
GuyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North East
Posts: 7,423
Points: 383 (+)
Default

Thanks again gents. Well I wore the hat all the while Michael!
__________________
@rexworthywatches
GuyJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 10:34 AM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Vette Enthusiast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: NOVA
Posts: 783
Points: 50 (+)
Default

Guy - Beautify work as usual and excellent write up. Wish I had half your skills but I learn something new every time I read your posts. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. I have worked on a number of 6139As and they can be a challenge. Not as many adjustments as the B movement and the spring set used for the start/stop and reset mechanism are not as robust. One thing of note in the tech guide is you are not to lubricate that intermediate wheel which you did not mention in your post but for others here to take note of. I have a 6139A on my bench now that is stopping at the 58 second mark. You have given me some things to check. Glad you sorted it.

PS - Noted in one of your pics this movement has a blue pillar wheel. My understanding is these are pretty rare and mostly found on the earlier 6139A movements.
__________________
____________
--John S.--

Last edited by Vette Enthusiast; 09-27-2019 at 10:40 AM.
Vette Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 11:56 AM   #21 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
GuyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North East
Posts: 7,423
Points: 383 (+)
Default

Cheers John, yeh dont oil it. You'll need to stake the wheel out from the top but if that option isn't there try sliding some watchmakers paper inside the gap and seeing if it grabs any dirt or anything near the arbor.
__________________
@rexworthywatches
GuyJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 12:46 PM   #22 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
byscott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 296
Points: 13 (+)
Default

One more note of praise for Guy’s work ...

Last night I attended an event featuring the editor-in-chief of Hodinkee. One of the watches I took was the 6105-8000 that Guy recently restored for me. Serious collectors — people whose experience and knowledge I respect — were taking pictures of this watch. They found it hard to believe that the dial and hands could possibly have been relumed, because it doesn’t look like it’s been “restored;” it just looks completely original. It was gratifying that a modest Seiko diver got so much attention in a room full of Rolex, Vacheron, Patek, and the like.

Pretty impressive, Guy.
byscott is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 12:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
seikozen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Santa barbara CA>
Posts: 1,939
Points: 62 (+)
Default

Beautiful Work. Another Saved Vintage Seiko. Neat and Clean. Russell
__________________
"What man is a Man, that does not make this a Better world"
"Kingdom of Heaven"
seikozen is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 01:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
jimmy1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK Northeast
Posts: 7,256
Points: 94 (+)
Default

The lume looks perfect Guy [ top notch as usual ]
__________________
Jim
jimmy1963 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2019, 04:03 PM   #25 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
GuyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North East
Posts: 7,423
Points: 383 (+)
Default

Thanks again gents.

Wow Brian that is pretty cool. Very pleased they liked it, or rather took pictures of it that could be interpreted as liking it.
__________________
@rexworthywatches
GuyJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:40 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.