6349 versus 6309 - Seiko & Citizen Watch Forum – Japanese Watch Reviews, Discussion & Trading
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 6349 versus 6309

Gents, I've read in other fora that the two movements are interchangeable. My question is, has anyone actually tried dropping a 6349 into a 6309-7040 bonnet? I've been thinking of fitting a spare 6349 into my 7040. Yeah I know don't franken, but..... I don't know. I'm not selling it so franken is not a concern. I just want it unique from the thousands of other 7040s I guess (a 23-jewel 7040!!)

So has anyone actually installed a 6349 movement to replace the 6309 in a 7040 case? Does it work fine, no grinding,sanding or filing involved?
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Both movements are identical as far as the form factor. The 6349 has extra jewels and requires a different escape wheel and pallet fork. Here's my 6309-7290 mod with a 6349 movement and a 6106 70m dial. It drops right in and is basically an upgraded 6309 movement.

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Old 08-06-2019, 07:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Gents, I've read in other fora that the two movements are interchangeable. My question is, has anyone actually tried dropping a 6349 into a 6309-7040 bonnet? I've been thinking of fitting a spare 6349 into my 7040. Yeah I know don't franken, but..... I don't know. I'm not selling it so franken is not a concern. I just want it unique from the thousands of other 7040s I guess (a 23-jewel 7040!!)

So has anyone actually installed a 6349 movement to replace the 6309 in a 7040 case? Does it work fine, no grinding,sanding or filing involved?
It is a direct swap. The only thing that you might have to take care of is the day/date wheels because of a different crown position that the 6349 watch had.

Just a warning if you intend to start swapping other parts...don't because there are more and different types of jewels in the 6349 as well as different shaped/length staff pinions.
Here is proof that the direct swap works...


This is my 6349-7040.

If you find a good 6349 and get it service, you can expect vastly superior performance over the 6309!
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You could also install a 6306 centre wheel bridge and hacking lever.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You could also install a 6306 centre wheel bridge and hacking lever.
I didn't have that option but if there is a next time, it will happen!
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have a few spare 6309 plates here I am gonna muck about with soon (cut a groove). If you need a hacking lever and 6306 plate just let me know Peter...
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I’ve done maybe a half dozen, both 704x and 7290 cases. A couple with hacking even. Actually none of the 6309s I have still have original mov’ts in them.




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Old 08-06-2019, 08:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have a few spare 6309 plates here I am gonna muck about with soon (cut a groove). If you need a hacking lever and 6306 plate just let me know Peter...
Thanks Guy but I'm happy with the watch the way it is. I rotate too much for hacking to be of any benefit
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Both movements are identical as far as the form factor. The 6349 has extra jewels and requires a different escape wheel and pallet fork. Here's my 6309-7290 mod with a 6349 movement and a 6106 70m dial. It drops right in and is basically an upgraded 6309 movement.



Escape and third wheel. Pallet is same for the 6309, 6319 and 6349. I have measurements on the other forum somewhere


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Old 08-06-2019, 08:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks Guy but I'm happy with the watch the way it is. I rotate too much for hacking to be of any benefit
:I was gonna end my tip about using a 6306 bridge by saying "but I find hacking pretty useless mostly"....
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Okay hope I don't sound ignorant here, but what exaclty is additionally jeweled in the 6349 which isn't in the 6309?

Edit: And also are these movements only found on the Bombay specials? All my search results show them originating from India.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Well played Michael, Peter and Jerry and Guy - I had a 6349 powered 6309 dress watch a while back the way I got it.


I prefer to upgrade to a 6306 for the hacking but the 6349 with its extra jewels might be a more robust upgrade.

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Old 08-06-2019, 10:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Jerry, Guy, Michael, et. al. , Thanks for the info guys. Will try it this weekend.

Guy - no need for hacking - not much of a premium on punctuality in my part of the world hahaha.
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by borgsauce View Post
Okay hope I don't sound ignorant here, but what exaclty is additionally jeweled in the 6349 which isn't in the 6309?

Edit: And also are these movements only found on the Bombay specials? All my search results show them originating from India.
The second and third wheels have Diafix jeweling instead of bushings to bring the total up to 21 jewels. There are 2 more which I forget their location which brings the total for the 6349 up to 23 jewels.
The 6319 is at 21 jewels and is also a great movement for swapping into a 6309.

Most of the 6349 watches were distributed in the far East aka humid climates and have long since become piles of rust.

Most of India is a lot drier so that is where we see most of these watches coming from. Fortunately, the Indian puppy mil for watches concentrates on making the outside look beautiful(to their tastes anyway) and only touch the workings if they don't run.

If you don't care what the outside of a watch looks like then the Mumbai specials are often a good source for movements.
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:18 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default 6309 hacking

I was just reading Guys Post .I learn Lots from his Posts, I was surprised to read that hacking was not important to him. It may well be unimportant to Many??

For me Hacking is so important. When I have OEM 6309s or 6105As that do not hack or any other watches I wear that don't hack I feel a bit lost.

I keep daily records of the watches I wear Been that way forever, Enjoy seeing how accurate they are On winders or on my Wrist. Math was not my strong suite: I guess this is why I have a HACKING watch 95% of the time on my wrist, I enjoy charting each day how many seconds I'm off 5-11 secs mostly Slow

It was said the other day when a Post showed a BEAUTIFUL Collection of 6105-811x, 6309-704x and the Poster talked about Bonding with his watches, that they Each had a Different Personality It was nice to Read because Thats how feel about Mine. This is a pic seen many times of the 6309-7049 April 1977 # extra jewels, Hacking kit and Black kanji Day/date My Go to 6309 Often
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by seikozen View Post
I was just reading Guys Post .I learn Lots from his Posts, I was surprised to read that hacking was not important to him. It may well be unimportant to Many??

For me Hacking is so important. When I have OEM 6309s or 6105As that do not hack or any other watches I wear that don't hack I feel a bit lost.

I keep daily records of the watches I wear Been that way forever, Enjoy seeing how accurate they are On winders or on my Wrist. Math was not my strong suite: I guess this is why I have a HACKING watch 95% of the time on my wrist, I enjoy charting each day how many seconds I'm off 5-11 secs mostly Slow

It was said the other day when a Post showed a BEAUTIFUL Collection of 6105-811x, 6309-704x and the Poster talked about Bonding with his watches, that they Each had a Different Personality It was nice to Read because Thats how feel about Mine. This is a pic seen many times of the 6309-7049 April 1977 # extra jewels, Hacking kit and Black kanji Day/date My Go to 6309 Often
Well, if charting accuracy is your personal preference, nothing wrong with that .
There are some interesting questions there - do you chart accuracy on worn and unworn watches? Is there a significant difference in accuracy of the same watch, worn versus unworn?
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilled Fluids View Post
The second and third wheels have Diafix jeweling instead of bushings to bring the total up to 21 jewels. There are 2 more which I forget their location which brings the total for the 6349 up to 23 jewels.
The 6319 is at 21 jewels and is also a great movement for swapping into a 6309.

Most of the 6349 watches were distributed in the far East aka humid climates and have long since become piles of rust.

Most of India is a lot drier so that is where we see most of these watches coming from. Fortunately, the Indian puppy mil for watches concentrates on making the outside look beautiful(to their tastes anyway) and only touch the workings if they don't run.

If you don't care what the outside of a watch looks like then the Mumbai specials are often a good source for movements.
Peter, is it correct to say Diafix =less friction = more accuracy (versus one with a metal bushing )
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Escape and third wheel. Pallet is same for the 6309, 6319 and 6349. I have measurements on the other forum somewhere


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Thanks for the clarification, I knew it was 2 parts that differed for the extra jewels in the plate and train bridge.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:01 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Peter, is it correct to say Diafix =less friction = more accuracy (versus one with a metal bushing )
Not accuracy as much as longevity, a jewel will last longer than a bushing. Both a 6309 and a 6349 can be very accurate, but the 6349 might be accurate for a longer amount of time. Hence the reason for using jewels instead of bushings in the 1st place.
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Last edited by zeke441; 08-07-2019 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Not accuracy as much as longevity, a jewel will last longer than a bushing. Both a 6309 and a 6349 can be very accurate, but the 6349 might be accurate for a longer amount of time. Hence the reason for using jewels instead of bushings in the 1st place.
Thanks Jerry, the equation should therefore read,

Diafix =harder =more durable = longer performance
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Old 08-07-2019, 04:11 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by seikozen View Post
I was just reading Guys Post .I learn Lots from his Posts, I was surprised to read that hacking was not important to him. It may well be unimportant to Many??

For me Hacking is so important. When I have OEM 6309s or 6105As that do not hack or any other watches I wear that don't hack I feel a bit lost.

I keep daily records of the watches I wear Been that way forever, Enjoy seeing how accurate they are On winders or on my Wrist. Math was not my strong suite: I guess this is why I have a HACKING watch 95% of the time on my wrist, I enjoy charting each day how many seconds I'm off 5-11 secs mostly Slow

It was said the other day when a Post showed a BEAUTIFUL Collection of 6105-811x, 6309-704x and the Poster talked about Bonding with his watches, that they Each had a Different Personality It was nice to Read because Thats how feel about Mine. This is a pic seen many times of the 6309-7049 April 1977 # extra jewels, Hacking kit and Black kanji Day/date My Go to 6309 Often

Because I don't find myself lining up the seconds hand when I wear a watch for a day or two. Notice I did say "mostly", not always, and didn't speak about anyone else!

I like it on a 6105 and 6306 and a 6159 currently. I don't have either of those watches anymore, let alone a 6159.

Last edited by GuyJ; 08-07-2019 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:51 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Thanks Jerry, the equation should therefore read,

Diafix =harder =more durable = longer performance
An additional benefit is that the Diafix keeps lubricant in place longer. Also the pinion ends run on the Diafix cap jewel rather than on the much larger shoulder of a regular jeweled or bushed one. Since there is a much smaller surface area of contact, it only stands to reason that with less friction, the accuracy 'could' be better.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:57 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Because I don't find myself lining up the seconds hand when I wear a watch for a day or two. Notice I did say "mostly", not always, and didn't speak about anyone else!

I like it on a 6105 and 6306 and a 6159 currently. I don't have either of those watches anymore, let alone a 6159.
There is nothing magical about hacking.

Does it matter if the seconds hand crosses the 12 o'clock position at exactly the same time as the source time? I can keep track just as easily if I note that the seconds hand passes over the 3 or 5 or 9 position at the same moment as the source crosses 12.

If I'm recording the timing, it makes no difference where(when) I note the time; just write it down.

Even if I'm not monitoring it on a chart, it is no more difficult to note the crossing time of the second hand if it is at 12 or 5.

So Hacking is just a crutch.
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:29 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default 6349 versus 6309

I used to set my hacking watches to the exact time, but got over it. As long as the time is within the correct minute, I am O.K. with it.


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Old 08-07-2019, 05:55 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilled Fluids View Post
There is nothing magical about hacking.

Does it matter if the seconds hand crosses the 12 o'clock position at exactly the same time as the source time? I can keep track just as easily if I note that the seconds hand passes over the 3 or 5 or 9 position at the same moment as the source crosses 12.

If I'm recording the timing, it makes no difference where(when) I note the time; just write it down.

Even if I'm not monitoring it on a chart, it is no more difficult to note the crossing time of the second hand if it is at 12 or 5.

So Hacking is just a crutch.
If hacking is a Crutch? Ill take two The Joy of Diversity, I guess as I look back Its always been a Thing for me, I look at the 6106s in my beginning and It was there ability to Hack that drew me towards them. All Good
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